Radio Show Tonight
Radio Interview
Tonight I will be interviewed by L.A. Marzulli on his radio show.
We will be discussing Hurricane Sandy and President Obama promoting homosexual marriage days before the hurricane hit, and on October 23, NY State court upheld homosexual “marriage” for the state.
Just six days later, the state was devastated!
I believe that America is under judgment for promoting the homosexual agenda, abortion and interfering with God’s prophetic plan for Israel.
The show is:
Acceleration Radio Live!
Email L.A. with your questions for the show: la@lamarzulli.net
You can call the show Toll Free (1-888-682-7688) international callers (+1 (702) 508-4900)
Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus
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Yes! Narendra, you are right! John is a false teacher because he is saying the atoning blood applied to the mercy seat by Jesus wasn’t enough to hold back the judgment of God until the DAY of wrath and judgment. There will be a time for judgment, but it will be initiated only by the Lamb who is worthy to open the seal because he was slain and received the judgments of God in our place. (Revelations 5-9) Any judgment from God that involves indiscriminatory death and destruction without preserving the innocent is not from God who judges righteously. God saves his own! He doesn’t judge them. (In fact John 5:22 says that the Father judges no man, but has “committed all judgment unto the Son.”) It’s Satan who comes to steal, kill, and destroy.
How dare John characterize God as an unrighteous judge who indiscriminately destroys the innocent! Does God not pay attention to His own Word? Romans 2:3-6 warns against judging others and wishing for God’s wrath to fall upon them. It even says that when we do this we are actually bringing His wrath upon ourselves!
“Or do you think this, O man, who judges them which do such things[those things listed in Romans 1], and do the same, that you shall escape the judgment of God? [Is John sinless?] Or despise you the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But after your hardness and impenitent heart treasured up UNTO YOURSELF wrath against the DAY OF WRATH and revelation of the RIGHTEOUS judgment of God. Who will render to every man according to his deeds.”
This is why Romans 3:10 says, “There is none righteous, no, not one.” All of us have sinned and can’t point to another as having sinned worse than us. Every sin deserves judgment.
Has Jesus opened the seal (Rev. 6:16-17), or is God just chomping at the bit and unable to wait for Jesus to open it, popping out every now and then with His judgments? But wait! God is no longer judging–Jesus is the judge. And His patience, goodness, and FORBEARANCE [defined as: to refrain; hold back.
To be patient or self-controlled when subject to annoyance or provocation.] is giving humanity a time of grace. This is what the sacrifice of a Lamb effected each year on the Day of Atonement–it held back the judgment and wrath of God. The sacrifice of an unblemished lamb was a type and shadow of what Jesus did on the Cross.John is falling into the devil’s trap! Satan’s greatest desire is that the work of the Cross and the shedding of Christ’s blood would be overlooked. And he would also find glee in misrepresenting (dare I say, blaspheming) the character of God. God is a holy God of justice and righteousness, but those are the exact reasons why God is not responsible for the indiscriminate death and destruction caused by hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, droughts, etc . . . God saved Lot. He saved Noah. He will save His Church.
We live in a fallen world. Birth pangs, sin, sorrow, and evil are to blame for bad things that happen–not God.
I wish John would respond to this and not just remove me from his email list and tell me to “get a handle” on my doctrine. John needs to realize that he’s ignoring the propitiating work of Christ on the Cross. This is a sober accusation. Please take it seriously–and respond to me if I’m wrong. Care enough about my soul to rebuke and correct me, rather than swipe at me like I’m a bothersome fly buzzing around your head.
To those who follow John, as I once did: please be a Berean and rightly divide the Word of Truth. Remember: “For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” (Matthew 7:2) Be careful about calling down fire from heaven. You may not know “what spirit ye are of.” (Luke 9:55)
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#3 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
Diana
I have hundreds of emails and Comments to respond to.
There was an overwhelming response to my blog post as it went viral.
I simple can’t respond fully to a long post like yours.
The secret to get me to respond is to make it terse with one or two issues.
I skimmed through your post, and I think one verse is sufficient to respond with.Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh,
are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.It is really amazing to me that your doctrine forces the HOLY God of Israel to sit handcuffed on His throne while 55 million babies are slaughtered in the womb
along with homosexuals fornicating in public during Southern Decadence and Gay Pride Day in San Fran.Somehow the precious shed blood of the Lord Jesus on the cross now allows this to happen!
Before you accuse me of “falling into the devil’s trap” you better examine your own doctrine.
The precious shed blood of the Lord Jesus does not prevent the God of Israel from judging a wicked nation that wholesale slaughters its young in the womb and “marries” homosexuals.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,
and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.We would need to talk more to determine if you fall under Jude 1:4. Right now it seems to fit your doctrine with the Holy God of Israel. Your grace allows for lasciviousness.
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The Lord God of Old Testament is same as New; all about Him and He does not change.
Power is of God; He moves all creation, all parts for His purposes… including humanity. All have free will, choosing the way they will go. He gives desires of the heart (good or evil; consequences too).
There is wisdom; a caution… to “guard one’s heart” for out of it are ALL issues of life… hard hearts tend to harden.
Even as “A man’s heart deviseth his way … the LORD directeth his steps. (Pr 16:9)
The Lord reigns… over all.
“The LORD [too] hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. (Nah 1:3)
Someone says “What about mercy?”…
“Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? … The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him. (Nah 1:6-7)
(Nah 1:8) But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies.
Still… wisdom cries in the streets (Pr 1:20); calling. Come….
But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them. But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil. (Pro 1:25-33)
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Your ideas are interesting.
“God is not responsible for the indiscriminate death and destruction caused by hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, droughts, etc”
So let me get this straight: God took His hands off the world at The Cross and has left humanity entirely to its own devices for a couple of millennia or so until Jesus unleashes worldwide destruction on the Day of Wrath. Is that right? If not, please correct my understanding of your position.
“Any judgment from God that involves indiscriminatory death and destruction without preserving the innocent is not from God who judges righteously.”
“All of us have sinned and can’t point to another as having sinned worse than us. Every sin deserves judgment.”
Compare these two statements of yours. In the first, you speak of “the innocent”. In the second, you say that there are no innocents — that all have sinned, and deserve judgement. Which is it to be? And calling John a “false teacher” is a serious accusation.
The idea that Christians should not judge is one that the wicked like a lot. They want Christians to shut up, so that they can continue with their wickedness unhindered. We’re called to have nothing to do with the deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. We can’t do that if we have to keep silent about others’ sins.
As saved sinners, we’re told to bear witness of others’ sins and to call them to repentance and faith. The warnings about judging others given in the New Testament (not only in Romans but also in the teachings of Christ Himself) concern unrighteous judgement — i.e. hypocrisy (something for which Christ had a particular hatred). So, according to Romans 2, if I’m a preacher who is railing against adulterers, and I’m secretly knocking off my best friend’s missus, then I can expect God’s Wrath to fall on me.
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Your ideas are interesting.
“God is not responsible for the indiscriminate death and destruction caused by hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, droughts, etc”
So let me get this straight: God took His hands off the world at The Cross and has left humanity entirely to its own devices for a couple of millennia or so until Jesus unleashes worldwide destruction on the Day of Wrath. Is that right? If not, please correct my understanding of your position.
“Any judgment from God that involves indiscriminatory death and destruction without preserving the innocent is not from God who judges righteously.”
“All of us have sinned and can’t point to another as having sinned worse than us. Every sin deserves judgment.”
Compare these two statements of yours. In the first, you speak of “the innocent”. In the second, you say that there are no innocents — that all have sinned, and deserve judgement. …So which is it to be?
The idea that Christians should not judge is one that the wicked like a lot. They want Christians to shut up, so that they can continue with their wickedness unhindered. We’re called to have nothing to do with the deeds of darkness, but rather expose them (Ephesians 5:11). We can’t do that if we have to constantly keep silent about others’ sins.
As saved sinners ourselves, we’re told to bear witness of others’ sins and to call them to repentance and faith, so that they might be saved too. People need to know how much God hates today’s sinful practices, and the danger they are in if they give themselves over to them.
The warnings about judging others given in the New Testament (not only in Romans but also in the teachings of Christ Himself) concern unrighteous judgement — most prominently hypocrisy (something for which Christ had a particular hatred). So, according to Romans 2, if I’m a preacher who is railing against adulterers, and I’m happily knocking off my best friend’s missus, then I can expect God’s Wrath to fall on me.
…Hence if John is gleefully engaging in homosexuality, whilst posing as an enemy of homosexuality, then he is a hypocrite, and according to Scripture can expect God’s Wrath to come down on his head. If you have evidence that John is a homosexual, then you should confront him with it — hypocrites are a plague in the body of Christ and must be exposed. But trying to silence a believer who is simply warning homosexuals of God’s judgement is not right.
And calling John a “false teacher” is a serious accusation. Are you certain that nothing you yourself say is wrong? Again, consider Romans 2…
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#10 written by Janine 6 months ago
Bless you John. I think you may want to have a look at this!!!
http://endtimesforecaster.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/alert-hurricane-sandy-haarping-on.html?m=1 -
You say my doctrine would indicate that the “precious blood of Jesus” is causing God to be handcuffed while the death of 55 million innocent babies are slaughtered in the womb. But if the hurricane was a judgment of God, why were those little children ripped away from their mother and their little bodies found at the end of a dead-end street?
How is the death of these toddlers at the hand of God any different than the death of the children in the womb?
If Sandy was part of the judgment of God, then God is unjust. He punished the innocent with the wicked. He punished believers with unbelievers. This is not RIGHTEOUS judgment.
No, a nation reaps what they sow. Evil exists. We live in a fallen world. But Jesus (who has been given authority to judge according to John 5:20) is not responsible for the deaths of little children.
Yes, the God of the Old Testament is the same as the new . . . the sacrifice of an unblemished lamb atoned for sin then and it still does now. 1 John 2:2–”He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” The blood of Jesus (the Lamb of God) is holding back the judgment which will one day come upon the whole world–but for now it holds it back–in the same way the sacrifice of a Lamb appeased God for a period of time (a year). And only Jesus is worthy to open the seal of wrath and judgment–because mercy was purchased through His precious blood.
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Diana, you have a very sentimental and unbiblical view of God. Indeed, you sling the accusation of false teaching and yet you seem yourself to have created a view of God which is unsupported by Scripture.
The death of any child is tragic — though not for the child, since young children appear in Scripture to go straight to Heaven to be with the Lord (read 2 Samuel 12:15-23). They are in paradise with God: there is no better place for any soul. When a child is aborted, the crime is not that of denying the child a life (since the child would appear to have been given eternal life). No, the crime is that a sinful human has broken the sixth Commandment. Murder is something God hates, and which God will judge.
Here’s another point to consider. Children are not innocent: they certainly have a special place in God’s affection (e.g. see Jesus’ words in Matthew 18:10), and they may not yet have racked up the litany of sin an adult has, but their hearts nevertheless harbour the same innate selfishness and deceit and evil that one finds in all human hearts — only someone who has never had any experience at all of children would argue otherwise (as some sentimental Victorians tried to do). God is the only righteous One (see Jesus’ words in Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:9): He alone can give life and take it away righteously.
And that’s the point. I might hate my neighbour’s thefts, blasphemies, sexual immorality, covetousness etc., but if I took it upon myself to go round to his door, ring the bell and then shoot him dead, then I’d be guilty in God’s eyes. …Because as a sinner, I have no right to take the law into my own hands (there are certain principles God gives us sinners for human law, and He does not give us carte blanche to administer summary one-man executions).
God Himself, however, could perfectly justly strike my evil neighbour dead, since God, unlike us, has no sin at all. He could justly kill me this very moment — or kill you, or anybody. …Including a child or a baby. Again, He is perfect and sinless: whereas humans are corrupt and sinful, whether old or young.
And there are a number of verses in Scripture where God clearly speaks of His killing of children. Indeed, God promises the Israelites in Deuteronomy 28 that if they go whoring after foreign gods and doing the things He hates, then He will bring upon them a terrible siege in which the famine would be so great that the Israelite women would eat their own children. Why this horror? Could God have punished Israel without causing the death of their little ones? Of course He could have — He’s God. …But He didn’t. (And the Biblical account of the destruction of Jerusalem indeed verify that Jewish women ended up eating their babies — see Lamentations 4:10.)
“How is the death of these toddlers at the hand of God any different than the death of the children in the womb?”
Again, to repeat: God, can take human life at any time, and can do so righteously. We, however, cannot. Here, your accusation is effectively against God Himself: if you hold to the position above, how do you explain God’s anger at Israel for burning their own children to false gods (Leviticus 18:21), if He Himself promises to kill those same children as punishment? There is very evidently a distinction between our killing children and His killing children. He can justly do things which we cannot.
Unless you are going to twist the Scriptures, you have to face the fact that the God whom Jesus called Father promised to kill children — and did so. (And you have still not answered the question as to whether an almighty omnipotent God allows Himself to be “handcuffed” whilst evil runs riot on Earth for a couple of millennia.)
You say also
“Jesus (who has been given authority to judge according to John 5:20) is not responsible for the deaths of little children”
Yet who will unleash Judgement on the Earth in the time to come? You say (correctly) that it will be Jesus. The descriptions of the slaughter that will result are terrible. Will the wicked at that time have no children? Perhaps all children alive just before the opening of the seal will be caught up painlessly to Heaven beforehand. …But then what of those conceived and born after that, in the final years of Judgement?
…And why does Jesus give the warning “woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days” in Luke 21:23?
This has been long e-mail and so perhaps a closing summary would help. Your logic runs like this:
1. All children are innocent (major premise)
2. God does not kill the innocent (minor premise)
3. Therefore God does not kill children (syllogism)
The problem is that God clearly does send judgements which kill children. That doesn’t mean that God is bad. Yet logic cannot fail. …Therefore the only remaining alternative is that your assumptions are faulty and unscriptural. (I’d direct your attention to your major premise, that children are innocent.) You said earlier,“…respond to me if I’m wrong. Care enough about my soul to rebuke and correct me”
You have your wish. I hope that you will consider what the Scriptures say, rather than being led by your heart. …For remember what we’re told about our hearts in Jeremiah 17:9.
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Re posts #1 and 2, there seems to be confusion here. The way I understand it, after 42 years of knowing and rejoicing in God’s mercy and grace, is as follows:-
1. God chastises those he loves (Heb 12:5-11);
2. There are nations in the earth today who’s past rulers or founding fathers associated themselves with the God of Israel through his word, and thus were blessed; but as their successors spurned his word and fell away, they are correctively judged – which is a demonstration of His love, ‘not willing that any should perish’, nor that his name should be profaned: surely that’s reasonable, and what we’d expect from our God, who is just, kind and above all – holy (that’s the thing we often forget); see also Proverbs 14:34.
3. As we’re undoubtedly in the last days, and God’s mercy and purpose towards the Jews as a regathered nation in the land of Israel comes into view, it’s entirely to be expected that He’ll use this to bring judgement upon the nations who oppose Him; see the everlasting promise of Gen 12:3!
4. The outpouring of God’s wrath in the final judgement is no longer corrective, but a just reward upon the eternally wicked, not to be confused with His corrective judgement;
5. As to Satanic activity, this is only by permission: remember the hedge around Job? “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose”. There is mystery here, which is revealed from faith to faith; but God uses tribulation to work his glory in us: praise His holy name!
Thank you John for ‘connecting the dots’, and let’s pray that many will heed, and think again, and turn from their wicked ways, that the angels in heaven may have cause to rejoice! -
#14 written by Janine 6 months ago
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I work with die-hard militant homosexuals and atheists. And now, because of your position, they are writing poems to mock you. (I guess they heard about you through the wire.) I work to reason with them and love them and soften their heart toward God and then you come and throw fuel on the flames of rejection of Him. Do you care about their souls? Where is the Gospel of grace and love, the New Covenant, in your doctrine?
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#16 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
God is destroying America for making homosexual “marriage” and ordinance.
Do you have any fear of the holy God of Israel?
Here is what the Bible says about His judgmentsIsaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early:
for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh,
are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.God is holy and is judgments are true and righteous.
Did you ever think, that when the homosexuals see the connection they will turn to the LORD?
Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake,
and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.-
“Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake,
and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.”Yes, they feared greatly, but there was no loss of lives even though they were all sinners and responsible for the Son of God being crucified, God still didn’t strike them dead. Jesus suffered for the sinners standing there who were mocking Him. God didn’t send an earthquake to swallow them up. They feared because they saw the power of God, not a hurricane that destroyed both evil and good people. What message does that send?
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#18 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
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Right now scripture tells us that we see through a glass darkly. We are not God, and therefore do not know which earthquakes are from God’s hands and which are just natural events. The Bible talks about nature, about the earth itself spuing out the inhabitants of the land because of shed blood. It’s serious business to say this thing over here has been sent by God and this is not. Suppose an earthquake demolished your house, would you be inclined to believe that it was sent to damage all you own, by God Himself? How would you know? It would be your opinion, either way. Same thing for sicknesses. Can we say that all sickness is sent by God to punish us for our sins? Or accidents? Are they all sent by God? Who can say? Not any one of us has all the answers.
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Here is one of my atheist bloggers poems:
http://theedixieflatline.wordpress.com/2012/11/03/a-god-made-in-the-image-of-bigots/#more-4439
God was so gentle with me, a fornicator, liar, self-centered pittance of a person. Just like he was with the adulterous woman, and Zaccheus, the tax collector. Just like he probably was with you. He loves Daz too.
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#23 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
It is probably vile, so why would I read it?
They need to repent of their sin and be healed by Jesus.If you have the courage, please forward these verses to them.
1 Corin 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.-
It is probably vile, so why would I read it?
Speaking as the author, in answer to your question: why not read it before deciding whether it’s vile or not? If you did find it so, I’d be interested in leaning why.
In answer to your verses, I wonder if you’ve considered how little effect you will gain by telling an atheist who—by definition—does not believe in God or Heaven, that such-and-such actions will lead to them not entering heaven? Rather like threatening a teetotaller with withdrawal of their whiskey-ration, I’d say.
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#25 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
What purpose is there for me to read your poem?
Heaven and hell are real whether you believe it or not.I see that you are from the UK.
You are probably mocking that I stated the US is under judgment for promoting the homosexual agenda.
Let me show you how the UK is under judgment.
In your country it is much slower but just as sure.
Since you country did want the Holy God of Israel, He is sending to you Muslims with allah.
All those Muslims flooding into your country are for judgment.
You are killing your babies or not having them, while they are in great numbers.
In the not to far future, you will be under Sharia law.
Now, do you know what Muslims do to homosexuals under Sharia law?
This is your judgment. It is slow but steady.
The next time you see a Muslim think of them looking at you and Sharia law.Psalm 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
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I’m sorry, I don’t understand your point. What difference should I see between (possibly) being ruled by Islamic law, based on the writings of a religion I believe to be false, and the imposition of Christian laws, based on writings I believe to be false?
If you wish to pass laws (for instance, as regards the marriage of two people who are of the same sex) telling people that they should obey the strictures of a holy book, whether the Torah, the Bible, the Qu’ran or the book of any other religion, then you need to show that (in this order):
1. A god exists.
2: That god is the god of your religion.
3: You have correctly interpreted the wishes and commands of that god.
4: The god in question is worthy of respect, and its wishes are worthy of our compliance.I have not yet seen any of the above demonstrated.
The poem in question dealt with point four, and specifically with my opinion of those who would willingly follow a god who, by punishing the innocent, seemed particularly unworthy of praise, adulation or worship. We would despise a human being who killed innocents on such a scale; why should we laud a god who does the same? Merely because it is more powerful?
I call that kow-towing.
Regardless of points 1–3, I see no reason to restrict people’s freedom to marry whoever they wish, based on the orders of what seems to me to be nothing but a celestial bully.
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Just for the record, I believe homosexuality is wrong, Daz. There are those who think I’m catering to you and don’t have the courage to tell you that.
But I also want you to know I was a “fornicator.” I had a child out of wedlock when I was 17. I broke God’s law. I also committed adultery in my heart. I lied to a friend and got caught–while I was a Sunday School teacher. I’m impatient and self-centered. I stand as a sinner before Jesus. Who doesn’t? “There is none righteous, no, not one.”
I can also tell you that, through Jesus, provision was made for the times I sinned against God and man. I believe God, in his mercy and kindness, received the penalty for my sin in my place. Because of this, the universal demand for justice has been satisfied and I can stand before him justified.
This was His great plan from the foundation of the world. It revealed His great love for His creation. He didn’t leave us hopeless and helpless. He provided a Way! All we have to do is receive it.
And if anybody believes they can appease the wrath of God (His need for justice in the universe) by not breaking any of His laws, they are mistaken. It’s impossible. He knew that, so He generously provided His Lamb, Jesus, so anybody who looks upon Him with compassion and thankfulness for what He has done can be accepted into the kingdom–just as you are, with no justification except that His blood was shed for you.
That is the Gospel (the Good News) of Jesus Christ!
And when you come to Him he fills your heart! Just when I thought I should be the most satisfied and happy, emptiness would come into my heart. But it doesn’t anymore.
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Diana, here’s how I, as an unbeliever, read your comment.
A non-existent being has, for no good reason, declared “fornication” to be a sin. The fact that you believe in this being and its edicts has led to you feeling guilty about behaviour which you have no real reason to feel guilty about. “Coincidentally,” those who have sold this false belief-system to you, thus creating your feelings of guilt in the first place, have then offered you a way to assuage that guilt. Oh, and “please place your tithe in the plate.”
As an analogy, imagine a pharmaceutical company who release a genetically-engineered disease into the population and who then “generously” offer the cure, at a price. From my point of view, your efforts to “save” me, although honestly meant, are equivalent to encouraging me to inject myself with the disease, and then queue up meekly and thankfully, to buy the cure.
As to “committing adultery in your heart,” think about this question: Who shows the most strength of character; a person who is tempted but fights and overcomes it, or a person who has never known the temptation?
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Have you told “Daz” what you believe, though? The idea over which you’re prepared to call John a false teacher? That, to use the verse you quote:
“the Lord cometh with TEN THOUSANDS OF HIS SAINTS, TO EXECUTE JUDGMENT upon all”
So have you told “Daz” that it’s okay, God won’t zap him with a hurricane — but if he doesn’t repent and believe, then not only Jesus but you yourself will be coming to execute judgement on him?
If he doesn’t think much of John’s message, then I doubt he’ll think any more of yours (regardless of whose ideas about God’s Judgement are correct).
And lastly, I don’t doubt you were a lying, fornicating, self-centred wretch (as far as I can recall, the Bible never says that any of us was ever worth saving — God didn’t have to save us because “we’re worth it” — and that’s why Grace is so amazing). …But did you honestly ever amuse yourself by mocking the beliefs of Christians and penning blasphemous poems to them? Honestly?
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Diana’s main conversation/debate with me was over, if I recall correctly, my views on the existence of God and the veracity of the Bible as a historical record (with a short, amusing digression into hair-styles). As such, her views on my repentance, or lack of, would have been straying off-topic. Diana, quite politely, elected to stay on topic, if I remember rightly.
My name, Daz, is a real-world nickname based on my real-world name, and therefore doesn’t need the scare-quotes.
The poem in question wasn’t written for my amusement. I find nothing amusing in the fact that people are denied equal rights with their fellow human beings, based on (as I see it) the wishes of a non-existent being who (again, as I see it), should be counted a monster, if he really did exist. Counterpoint my rather mild mockery with such denials of rights.
Also, how can one blaspheme, if the being one is “insulting” is a being one believes to be non-existent?
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“My name, Daz, is a real-world nickname based on my real-world name, and therefore doesn’t need the scare-quotes.”
Scare-quotes? Your nickname isn’t scary. I quoted it simply because “Daz” is not your real name. So I’m going to call you Darren…
Darren, you claim that God is a figment of one’s imagination, and yet you speak of “rights” as though they’re something tangible and concrete. The “rights” you describe are non-existent — they are simply created by men (or women), and can be just as simply revoked. The verdict of an oddball in a peruke, the assent of a politician and signature of a bureaucrat have no ultimate significance, since they can be reversed by other bewigged oddballs, politicians and bureaucrats. Rights have meaning only if they transcend human law, which means that they must come from an authority outside of ourselves, i.e. God. If there is no God (as you claim), then there are no rights — just people’s opinions, which vary wildly from society to society and culture to culture. People used to recognise this, but now that we’re schooled by secular ideologues, people just can’t see it.
And with regard to your final question, your logic is faulty. You can indeed blaspheme a being whose existence you deny — if that being does actually exist. …Which of course is a point of contention between you and Diana. If you’re unable to see this, then try removing the words “a being one believes to be”, and comparing the resulting question with your original one.
Your personal belief is immaterial (denial doesn’t make God cease to exist, no more than believing in God would conjure Him into existence). It has no bearing on matters — only the existence or otherwise of the being in question determines whether blasphemy is possible.
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Paul,
The term “scare quotes” refers to the use of quotation marks as other than quotation. May I ask why you seem to have taken a personal affront at my use of a nickname I’ve been known by since I was 5 years old or thereabouts? Stall an’ all, if you insist on using my real name, please spell it properly: Daron.
May I ask, then, on what grounds you believe yourself and others of the same opinion to have the “right” to define who should or should not be allowed to marry? Aren’t you, by not allowing a gay couple to marry, imposing the tenets your version of your religion on people who possibly aren’t religious at all, possibly not of your religion, and almost certainly do not interpret the Bible in the way which you do?
Here’s the thing: I’m fine with you not agreeing that a same-sex marriage is a real marriage. I’m fine with you refusing to recognise the religious aspects, if any, of that marriage, within your church. What I’m not fine with is you imposing, or seeking to impose, your tenets on others by force of law. Refuse them membership of your church if you want to, snub them socially if you want to. That’s fine. All I’m asking is that you accept that other people might not believe as you do, and that they have the same rights to their beliefs as you do to yours—and the same right to act on their beliefs, as long as they harm no one. (If you wish to tell me that the harm caused is of a religious nature, we’ll need to go back to square one and find evidence that the god in question does actually exist, and does actually care about such matters.)
Regarding blasphemy. I didn’t make my point clearly. I understand that what I say or write might be construed as blasphemous, however I cannot be accused of having the intention to blaspheme, as that would require me to believe that there is a being against whom I can blaspheme. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a victimless “crime.”
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“But did you honestly ever amuse yourself by mocking the beliefs of Christians and penning blasphemous poems to them? Honestly?”
Paul, may I answer this question? Does that seem strange to you? I know the most wonderful Christains who have done WAY worse than that? Does that surprise you. Jesus blood is Powerful! There have been Satanists who sold their souls to Satan, murdered, drank blood and yet were redeemed by the precious blood. And boy do they LOVE Jesus! When much is forgiven, the same will love so much. In other words, they will appreciate their salvation, much more than those who didn’t commit such abominations. I personally think that when these are saved, they give God more glory, than those who have only been forgiven a little. And the love shown in His name and on His behalf is nothing short of glorious!
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Hope, I agree that one can indeed find the most amazing transformations (Satanists included). But what you call “WAY worse than that” is a subjective opinion — one must test it against Scripture. Jesus tells us clearly that there are certain people who we are not to bother with (Matthew 7:6), and this is merely an echo of a principle found in the rest of Scripture (e.g. Proverbs 9:8, 23:9). If someone despises the Gospel, we are not to hang around them like a love-sick teenager, we are to do the Luke 9:5 thing, just as the Apostles did in Acts 13. If we don’t do this, then we’re disobeying Christ. Many Christians forget this — indeed, many do not want to hear it.
Now you are correct to say that there are some very bad people who come to Christ (and indeed, if any of us saw our sins through God’s eyes, we’d be shocked at how vile we truly are), but there’s a common denominator amongst them — Jesus tells us that “those who are of the Truth hear My voice”. Those who are not of the Truth, who despise His Truth (“scoffers”) will not hear, and will not be saved.
Now I do not say that “Daz”/Darren is one of these: he may genuinely be seeking answers — which is to be hoped. …But if someone is not at all interested in the Gospel, and is just having a little sport with us, then we’re told to leave them and move on.
So as an example, Bertrand Russell was never going to be won over to the faith — he was immensely proud of his status as an intellectual, and saw scoffing at Christianity as befitting to his lofty position. Anyone witnessing to him or praying for him would have been wasting their time (and disobeying Christ). Diana says she works with “die-hard” atheists, and I merely wanted to point out that there are those who will simply mock and will never “receive a love of the truth”. This is not to discourage her, but to help her to avoid wasting her time on resolute scoffers and becoming disheartened.
By the way, are you the same person as Diana? It’s only that I’ve just noticed the connection between your name and her surname. “Hope” — c’est en français “l’ésperance”, n’est-ce-pas?
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“If someone despises the Gospel, we are not to hang around them like a love-sick teenager, we are to do the Luke 9:5 thing, just as the Apostles did in Acts 13. If we don’t do this, then we’re disobeying Christ. Many Christians forget this — indeed, many do not want to hear it.”
Paul,I applaud Diana and the work shes doing. John agrees. Would there were dozens more of her. If we as Christians are going to err (and ALL of us do from time to time) I would rather err on the side of love, and faith and hope in God’s mercy. If we are going to err let it be because we were TOO hot and TOO zealous. People can overly intellectualize and use these scriptures as a cloak for lukewarmness. Daz is somebody’s child. If he were your child, and you tried everything to reach him, would you discourage Diana from trying? If he didn’t respond after a few tries, and she wanted to continue, would you show her scripture and advice her to walk away? Make it personal. If he were YOUR son? God feels like that about every person. No one should ever walk away if they still feel there is hope. Love sick teenager? It is NOT God’s will for any to perish, it is God’s work to seek and save those who are lost.
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Yes I fear God. . . so much that I want to make sure my doctrine is sound. And I believe that is your heart also.
The New Testament always points forward to a time of future judgment. It never speaks of national judgments upon nations. Even in the Scriptures when they refer to Sodom and Gomorrah as examples, the writer points to judgments which will occur in the future.
JUDE 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness UNTO THE JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY.
JUDE 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
JUDE 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with TEN THOUSANDS OF HIS SAINTS,
15 TO EXECUTE JUDGMENT upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Are there judgments before the day of judgment?
I don’t think the Church ever came back with Christ to execute judgment yet.
Where is there evidence of national judgment in the New Testament since Jesus became the propitiation (appeasement) for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2)–something that hadn’t happened yet in the Old Testament?
God even gave Abraham an opportunity to allow the city of Sodom to be preserved if He could find ten righteous men. He couldn’t, but He saved Lot and his family. There are many in America who are righteous-saved by the blood of Christ. Many live in New Orleans and Staten Island. But according to you, God still didn’t stop pouring out His judgment on those cities.
God is going to remove his people by rapture before He pours out judgment and wrath. Then it will be a just judgment.
2 Peter 4 — For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be RESERVED UNTO JUDGMENT;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to RESERVE THE UNJUST UNTO THE DAY OF JUDGMENT to be punished:
Where in the New Testament does it say God is pouring out His judgments on sinful nations during this time when Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world?
You are placing an Old Testament standard on a New Testament world. By that I mean a world where God is delaying his coming (and His wrath) because He is “not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9).
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#37 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
Diana, once again this is getting old.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Does your doctrine mean that all are saved?
Is this what you believe? I hope you do not believe this.
This verse means that salvation is available to everyone.
It does not mean that God is now handcuffed on His throne of Grace, so homosexuals can march naked down the streets of cities with impunity!
It does not mean that God is handcuffed not to judge the 55 million babies.
Why do you pit the New Testament against the Old?
God still judges nations just like He did in the Old Testament.
Salvation is meant for people and not nations.
Whether you agree or not, America is right now in God’s crosshairs of judgment.
If people like you do not cry out to him, all the curses written in the Bible are going to destroy this nation.
I have given you lots of time and I have to move from with you.
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Fear doesn’t lead men to repentance, the GOODNESS OF GOD leads to repentance.
“God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19We love him, because he first loved us. (1 John 4:16-18)
Jesus came to sinners with gentleness, kindness, and love. He called proud religious leaders “dens of vipers.”
I have compassion on unborn children. I was involved with Operation Rescue. I served time in jail and walked for a year because my license was revoked. I am the mother of eight children and four beautiful grandchildren. It grieves my heart! My eyes aren’t closed to the suffering of the innocent. But I blame the people who did it for the murder of the unborn. I don’t blame God. In the same way I don’t think it’s right to blame God for the destruction caused by natural disasters. Jesus CALMED the storm! Satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy.
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#39 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
Psalm 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
God is control of nature.
Nations can be destroyed for its wickedness.
America is now a WICKED nation that wholesale kills it children and now wants to marry “homosexuals”.
The vast amount of Christians do not care and are not praying.
They have lost the fear of the LORD.
The pulpits are silent.
The church is America’s covering, so the nation is now naked before the LORD.
He is holy and will not allow homosexual marriage.
God has directly warned the nation since 1987.
The church will not respond and the judgments are getting worse and more frequent.
Your doctrine blocks you from understanding the state of America before the Holy God of Israel.
It is all written in His word about how He judges nations and you will not believe it.
You are one of millions upon millions.
I run into them all the time.
Your doctrine leaves America naked before the LORD in judgment.
It is happening right before your eyes and yet denial.
Unless, there is quick action by Christians the end is near. -
“Fear doesn’t lead men to repentance, the GOODNESS OF GOD leads to repentance.”
Then you’d better tell Jesus that — according to you, He must have made a bit of a pig’s ear of His message. Comments like this one make me wonder whether you’ve actually read the Gospels… What on earth do you do with Luke 12:5, Diana?
You then quote 1 John 4:16-18. To whom is this letter addressed? To unrepentant homosexuals? To scoffing heathen? NO! …Rather to believers, who have already come to repentance and are growing in their relationship with The Lord.
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The other travesty in this is that Jesus paid the penalty for sin in his own body and yet your doctrine would have innocent children pay for the sins of the homosexuals.
6 “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us ALL. ” (Isaiah 53:6)
If Jesus paid the penalty for all sin, why did those toddlers who died now have to pay for the sins of the homosexuals?
Were they just collateral damage from an angry God whose wrath was kindled? Where is the justice in this? You make God out to be a dragon who swoops down on villages and indiscriminately spews out fires of destruction .
Here is the paradox: God is angry because the innocent are killed in the womb, so he goes and kills innocent children. God is angry at the homosexuals, so he kills the heterosexual.
NO! You blaspheme (vilify, slander, speak evil against) God!
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#42 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
Great job with Operation Rescue and may you be blessed.
Psalm 9:16 The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Isa 26:9 for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.What do you think happened during the Civil War?
Multitudes died who had nothing to do with slavery.
They knew during the Civil War it was God’s just judgment on America for sin. They knew it.
This is what Lincoln said during His Second Inaugural AddressOne-eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war, while the Government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it. Neither party expected for the war the magnitude or the duration which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with or even before the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God’s assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men’s faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. “Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh.” If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said “the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.”
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“Here is the paradox: God is angry because the innocent are killed in the womb, so he goes and kills innocent children.”
If you believe this to be a problem, then your problem is not with John but with Scripture itself, as I explained in my previous comment, to which you have given no reply.
And again you call John a blasphemer, accusing him of slandering God. Do you realise what a serious accusation this is?
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#44 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
America is now under a the curse of the Holy God of Israel.
This is not a joke or religious games. This is reality.
People are going to die by the multitudes for national sin.
Everyone better seek the Lord and come under His protection.
This is the curse that is one America foe killing its children.
This is a blood curse on the land that brings horrible death.
America is blood guilty and the church has not repented.Numbers 35:33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land:
and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.
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“And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: FOR I CAME NOT TO JUDGE THE WORLD, BUT TO SAVE THE WORLD.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him IN THE LAST DAY.” (John 12:47-48)
The Word of God will condemn unrepentant sinners in the last day. Jesus warns that dogs, whoremongers, idolaters, etc . . . will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, but for now He is giving all a chance to come to Him, and the Holy Spirit and the Bride are calling out to all who wish to drink freely of the Water of Life.
” And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”
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@ Diana: You sound so loving and caring, but your doctrine is somewhat different than I was taught as a child over 70 years ago. I don’t know when this new doctrine was introduced nor who introduced it, but I have encountered several people over these last 30 or 40 years who have used that scripture you referenced. I believe you are referring to:
John 12:47 (KJV)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.One thing about picking only one verse to use appears to say what you believe, but when put in context means something entirely different. I notice that you use all kinds of verses to prove your point; so allow me to use another scripture that says what people want to hear.
John 3:16-17 (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.Several times people have quoted this verse to me thinking that Jesus came not to condemn. I immediately ask them to read the rest of what Jesus said:
John 3:18-21 (KJV)
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.All the good works you have done and are doing with so much love in your heart are pointless unless you also warn the sinner than even though God loved him enough to send his only begotten Son to die for him, he is condemned unless he confesses his sin, repents, and turns his life totally over to our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
Instead of accusing John of blasphemy, perhaps you should take another long, prayerful look at your own beliefs. I will be praying for you that you will see and understand God’s truth concerning His judgments and when those judgments might occur.
Maranatha
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Hi Barbara,
I agree with you. I believe the Word, and it says those who don’t believe are condemned. I believe we must speak this truth to people who reject God. They will stand naked and condemned before God without the blood of Jesus to cover their sins. I don’t say there will be no judgment!
The issue I’m confronting John about is WHEN Jesus will judge the world. I argue that His wrath is reserved for a certain day which only Jesus, the Lamb of God who is worthy to open the scroll, can initiate. (Rev. 5 and 6) God has given the right to judge to Jesus (John 5:22) and He says HE JUDGES NO MAN. (John 12:47)
I’m not saying judgment will never occur. It’s just that the Holy God of Israel is judging no man right now. God sees only the blood of Jesus sprinkled on the mercy seat.
Inside the Ark of the Covenant are 3 things which represent the rebellion of man. Manna, the rod of Aaron, and the ten commandments. The manna represents the rejection of God’s provision. The rod of Aaron represents the rejection of God’s leadership, and the ten commandments represent the rejection of God’s standard of holiness.
God no longer sees these since the blood of Jesus was sprinkled there. Just as in the Old Testament, the blood sacrifice appeased God for a year until the next Day of Atonement. But this was merely a type and shadow of what Jesus did for us. His sinless blood is so precious to God and so powerful that it has effected a propitiation for the WHOLE WORLD. (1 John 2:2) The judgment that the world deserves for its rebellion against God is being appeased until the Lamb who is worthy–BECAUSE HE PURCHASED THE MERCY WITH HIS OWN BLOOD (Rev. 5:9)–opens the seals to pour out wrath and judgment.
To say that calamities and disasters are the judgments of God is to not understand:
1. That the atoning blood of Jesus is appeasing God’s wrath for a time until the DAY of judgment.
2. That God does not judge indiscriminately. Even in the Old Testament God judged righteously by getting the remnant of believers out before pouring out His wrath.
3. That God is not the Judge, Jesus is. And he says he judges no man. (Those are not my words, those are the words of Jesus.)
4. That there is a DAY appointed for the Lamb to open the scroll that contains the seals–the sixth seal being the earthquake warning of “their wrath.”
5. That God is not sending judgments on the earth in the form of disasters and calamities. His judgments are effected by governments whose authority has come from God. There are times when unjust governments are in power, but those governments are brought down by other governments. (i.e. Nazi Germany, the slave-owning South, the Roman Empire, etc…) (Romans 13) During this time He doesn’t get rid of evil through nature. He gets rid of evil by using his people to fight against tyranny by standing on the Word of God. Think of all the times in history when we saw the amazing heroism of God’s people as they stood for the truth of God’s Word. They’ve been sent to prison camps, burnt at the stake, beheaded, boiled in oil, thrown to the lions, fought in wars, tarred and feathered, mocked, sent to mental wards, and on and on.
6. The goodness, patience, and kindness of God leads to repentance. (Romans 2:4) Perfect love casts out fear. We can’t scare people into the kingdom. This is why God sent Jesus. Think about it. When Satan rebelled, God had choices. He could keep Satan in Heaven and overlook the rebellion, allowing it to spread more and more like a cancer and making Heaven a place of war and destruction and injustice; or he could cast Satan out causing the universe to fear God. But God came up with a plan where he would prove His love for the universe by paying the penalty himself for the injustice and evil that occurred in the universe. When Jesus hung on the Cross the whole universe watched in awe as God revealed his great mercy, kindness, and love. HE PAID THE PENALTY HIMSELF! How could anyone fear this God now. They know His true nature. He is a just and merciful God–who would judge righteously.
To think that God is now somebody we should come to out of fear, rather than love, is not what God wants. He wants to be known as a loving, kind, and just God. Jesus was the revelation of God–and he was kind, merciful and compassionate to sinners. It was the self-righteous religious people, especially the leaders, that he rejected.
There must be justice in the universe, but his wrath and judgments are only for those who reject Jesus’ great love. They are for those who can look upon the Cross and spit. They are for those who corrupt and pervert the Word of God–false teachers and preachers. Not for anybody who just happens to be in the way of a storm, or live in a town where an earthquake occurs.
Again, Barbara, yes, God condemns those who reject the blood of Jesus to cover their sins; and this message needs to be shouted from the rooftops, but He isn’t judging anybody at this time since the blood of Jesus has been poured out on the mercy seat and became a propitiation for the sins of the whole world.
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Diana: Sorry, but I did not read all this long response here with all those scriptures, etc. However, from what I’ve read of your past comments, you are saying the same thing over and over.
If you read my response carefully, you will have noted that I said you need to pray that God will show you when His judgments will come. We can all agree that when He returns with the saints will be the BIG and FINAL judgment. You are totally missing the point of what John, Paul, Norman and I have been trying to tell you. Even though there is a final judgment, there are also WARNING JUDGMENTS which we are witnessing now! Believe me I have experienced God’s love all my life and I have loved Him and have learned to love people because of His love toward me and because of His instructions to love others. In fact I have been criticized for wanting to witness in a loving way rather than shouting at someone that they are going to hell because of their sins.
I’m just having a hard time with your emphasis on His judgment being only for the last days. We pay for our deliberate sins, if not direct chatisement from the Lord, then by some natural calamity when we go against the laws of nature. Think about it, Diana and most of all pray sincerely about it–God answers prayers. I know He does, because He has answered so many of mine over the years. He is WARNING US–WE DON’T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO ARGUE AND ACCUSE EACH OTHER OF BLASHEMY!
God bless you and lead you into His truth!
Maranatha
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I agree that the South was judged, but how did God effect judgment? It wasn’t through storms, earthquakes, or natural disasters. It was through instituted government. Just as Romans 13 says:
3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for HE IS THE MINISTER OF GOD, A REVENGER TO EXECUTE WRATH UPON HIM THAT DOETH EVIL.”
How was Nazi Germany judged–through storms and earthquakes–or through the governments that joined together to defeat them?
One day Jesus will judge the nations:
31″ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats.” (Matthew 25:31-32)
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#51 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
For your information, huge numbers died of diseases that spread throughout the camps!!!
God is now systemically destroying the nation and you are fighting me at every turn.
I am calling the church to repentance as God is moving to destroy America because of His holiness.
Your doctrine is one of the major reason America is about to destroyed.
You are unable to know the righteous judgments of the LORD.
There are untold numbers of pastors just like you.
The homosexuals are “marrying” and you really do not think God will judge a nation for such wickedness!
Your doctrine has deadened the fear of the LORD in you.
I cannot spend anymore time with you.
It is time to move on to someone who understands the Lord’s holiness and will act on it.Psalm 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
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There is a difference between the Old and New Testaments and that is the shed blood of Jesus. He fulfilled the Law and the Prophets. We no longer live under the Old Testament Law. We no longer need to be circumcised. We no longer need to perform animal sacrifice. We no longer need to stone our disobedient children. We no longer worship in a temple (or tabernacle). We no longer need to eat kosher food. We no longer need to celebrate the feasts. We no longer need to tithe. We no longer need to come to God through a priest. These are ways that God has changed in his relationship with us.
He hasn’t changed in that it’s still wrong to lie, steal, commit adultery, commit homosexual acts, be bitter, be hateful, worship idols, be a glutton, etc . . .
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I’m not saying the church doesn’t need to repent. I’m just curious to know what John thinks the Church needs to repent of.
I have my own opinions. I believe the Church has broken God’s heart and been unfaithful. Here is my view on the subject. (Just in case you’re interested.)
http://narrowwayapologetics.com/2012/07/28/open-letter-to-american-churches-2/
I think John is one who is breaking God’s heart by neglecting the atoning work of Jesus’ blood by adding an Old Testament view of wrath and judgment onto a New Testament era.
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#58 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
Diana, your doctrine has you dead in the water to God’s judgments raining down on the nation.
You don’t have a clue what the church needs to repent of.
It still amazes me to read your post that God is handcuffed to judge Southern Decadence because the Lord Jesus died on the cross,
when hurricanes hit the city during this week!
It is doctrines like yours that has America in this state with the LORD.
The following is my teaching on what triggers God judgment on a nation.
Nothing has changed since God judged the Canaanites. Today America is the new “ites”.The Ordinances of the Amorites
Genesis 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again:
for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.God told Abraham that his descendants were going to leave the land of Canaan for 400 years because the iniquity of the people living in the land was not complete. There is a process for a society to be taken over by iniquity. In the case of the Canaanites, God gave these people 400 years to stop iniquity. God knew that after 400 years the iniquity of the people would reach its peak. The people would not turn from sin, but they would completely embrace it.
When studying Genesis 15:16 there is a key word in this verse. It is the Hebrew word translated full. This word is directly connected with the idea of friendly or friendship. The concept of this word is that when a society is friendly with iniquity at that point it is subject to judgment from God. Iniquity is no longer shameful or a disgraceful. It is not hidden or done in the dark. The people are friendly with it. They are accustomed to it. In Genesis 15:16, the Bible does not define iniquity: it simply states that there is a time for it to mature in a society and become full.
After the 400 years, the Jews left Egypt and came back to the land of Canaan . Today it is called the land of Israel . At this time, the Bible identifies what is iniquity. In Leviticus 18, God warned the Jews not to follow the ordinances of the Canaanites who lived in the land. The Canaanites and Amorites blended into one people; therefore it is also the ordinances of the Amorites that are mentioned in Genesis 15:16.
Leviticus 18:3 After the doings of the land of Egypt , wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan , whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.
In the above verse, the key word is ordinances. The Hebrew word means an enactment and is also translated custom, manner, and statute. By using the word ordinance the Bible is describing a society that is “friendly” with iniquity. Iniquity has become ingrained in the Canaanites by both customs and laws which makes it a way of life. For this reason, God is about to judge the Canaanites and drive them off the land. The judgment comes because iniquity is an ordinance of the society and not because individuals are committing iniquity. When a society makes iniquity an ordinance, this is extremely serious with God.
Later in chapter 18, the Bible defines iniquity. It includes such acts as: adultery, child sacrifice, homosexuality and bestiality. Homosexuality is singled out from this group and described as an abomination. Without any doubt, God strongly condemns the homosexual act as iniquity. There is no section in the Old Testament where God approves or condones homosexuality. The homosexual act is a very serious offense to God. It is linked with child sacrifice and bestiality. The Scriptures to show this follow:
Leviticus 18:20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour’s wife, to defile thyself with her. (Adultery)
(21) And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. (Child sacrifice)
(22) Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Homosexuality)
(23) Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. (Bestiality)
The Bible warns that when homosexuality becomes an ordinance, social custom or norm, it will bring God’s judgment on that nation. When the Bible defines iniquity, the homosexual act would automatically fall under the description of this word. In the strongest language possible, the Bible says because of iniquity the land will vomit out its inhabitants. The Scriptures to show this follows:
Leviticus 18:24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
(25) And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
(26) Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
(27) (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)
The United States now is enacting, by both custom and law, the Ordinances of the Amorites; therefore the nation is defiled before the holy God of Israel and faces His judgment. By promoting homosexuality, America has become like the ancient pagan Amorites and has now come under the judgment of God.
America promotes homosexuality by custom with events such as Gay Pride Day, Gay Awareness Month (June), Gay day at Disney land, Gay Day at sporting events and events like Southern Decadence in New Orleans . There are gay clubs in high school and colleges. The political parties are pandering to the homosexuals for their votes. By custom, homosexuality has woven into the fabric of America .
America is continually making ordinances to advance the homosexual agenda. Sodomites can legally marry in California and Massachusetts while many states recognize civil unions. Homosexuals are now able to adopt children and gain custody of children during a divorce. There are now numerous hate speech laws which are being used to silence opposition to the homosexual agenda. America is a long way down the road to enacting all the Ordinances of the Amorites.
The Bible warns of God judging a nation that walks in these ordinances. When the corporate attitude of a nation is friendly toward homosexuality then at this point the iniquity is full. It is apparent that “the cup” of America ’s sin is rapidly filling up. Americans hardly blush anymore at fornication and adultery. The nation kills over one million babies a year with up to 50 million killed since 1973. The legalizing of abortion was an additional Ordinance of the Amorites. Homosexuality is fast becoming a constitutional right. The only ordinance left to fulfill Leviticus 18 is bestiality. This is probably next on line to become an ordinance!
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Dear John,
America will reap what she sows. She disobeys and rejects God’s Word and will suffer greatly for it. I’m so sad for America right now. She has given herself over to so much evil. It’s evident even more after tonight’s election. It won’t get better for us. My heart is filled with sorrow as I see darkness and death overtaking our nation.
But this doesn’t mean God is judging us with calamities and disasters. Again, I ask you to explain to me why Jesus sprinkled his blood on the mercy seat. I ask you to explain the purpose of the Day of Atonement (as a type and shadow of Christ). I ask you to explain to me why Christ was a propitiation for “not only us (the Christians) but for the whole world.”(1 John 2:2)
You don’t explain to me why I’m promoting wrong doctrine. You just act astounded that I could think yours is wrong.
I’ve explained over and over why I think yours is wrong. Can you please tell me your view of the atonement and why Christ’s blood was the propitiation for the sins of the whole world and not the Christians only?
We are getting closer and closer to the return of Christ. The birth pangs are getting stronger and stronger. Judgment is at the door. But only Jesus will be able to open the seal of God’s wrath. Jesus is the judge now! (John 5:22) And he says he judges no man. (John 12:47) He came not to condemn the world, but to save it.
How do you explain these scriptures in light of your doctrine which claims:
“The last few days have really been something as I was able to share with literally thousands of the Hard Left that God is holy and His judgments are true and righteous.” (11-5-2012) “Dumpster Diving in NYC”
How are his judgments true when he is no longer the judge?
“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed ALL judgment unto the Son.” (John 5:22)
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God is holy and His Word is holy. This is why I am thankful that you took some time to try to correct the doctrine that I believe. I want to be found faithful to the Scriptures when I stand before Him. I will consider all you said to me and I hope you will consider all that I said to you. I’m so sorry we are divided–especially over the purpose of the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.
I don’t want to take up more of your time if you don’t want me to.
Thank you again.
Diana Lesperance
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#64 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
I report the sinful event taking place during these horrific disasters hitting America.
The best example is New Orleans being destroyed during Southern Decadence and then seven years latter to the day, Hurricane Isaac hitting New Orleans during Southern Decadence.
All the awesome disasters are just like this.
The Holy God of Israel is now zeroing in on America’s sin like He did at Sodom and where is the Church?Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh,
are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. -
#65 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
The homosexual agenda is the fulfillment of prophecy.
The end of denying God results in God turning that society over to homosexuality and a reprobate mind.
This is your proof of God and the Bible is the word of God.Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; -
As far as I’m aware, the homosexual agenda consists of these points:
1: Wanting to be treated equally.
2: … No, “1″ just about covers it.And again, your “proof” is rather lacking, given that you already know I place no credence in the book which you cite. (See my points 2 and 3.)
And you still haven’t addressed my question. Why do you choose to worship a being who, by your claim, acts in ways which we would despise human beings for acting in?
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#67 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
The proof is evident in America.
The nation turned from the Holy God of Israel, and God raised up the homosexuals as judgment.
It is very clear.
You are not equal,
There is no such thing as homosexual “marriage”. This is an invention of the modern Hard Left in rebellion against God.
I don’t think that even during the French Revolution homosexuals “married”.
Homosexual is an act of the will, and therefore not like being born black.There is always hope for you as an individual to have eternal life with the Lord Jesus.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -
Sidenote on a technical matter:
When I click on the link in the comment-received email ( http://defendproclaimthefaith.org.previewdns.com/blog/?p=3006 ), instead of bringing me to this page, I get redirected to http://support.previewdns.com/ and a message saying “Preview DNS is not enabled for this hosting account.”
I’m not sure why the “previewdns.com” term is included in the original link. Possibly you need to get in touch with WordPress?
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My apologies. I thought I’d replied to this, but it seems to have disappeared into the æther. Even my form-filler addon fails to record any reply, so heaven knows where it went. These things are sent to try us!
On the contrary, John, there are records of officially sanctioned same-sex marriage going back to antiquity. Not just pagan, either; see, for example, the Christian, 10th/11th Century “Office Of Same-Sex Union” and the 11th/12th Century “Order For Uniting Two Men.”
Homosexual behaviour has been observed in almost every species which reproduces sexually. Why should human beings be any different? And, personally, I don’t really care whether it’s a choice or not. What matters to me is whether it causes harm or not, and I see no harm in it, either to the participants or to society in general.
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Here’s the problem with your reasoning, John. Do you not think that Satan knows those dates and can bring about those storms for his own purposes. Mainly–to deceive the Church and make them misrepresent God to the world?
There are options for how we can think about those dates.
1. They are coincidental.
2. They are from God.
3. They are from the Devil.I argue that Satan would like nothing more than to use the “sign” of a calamity happening on a certain date to deceive the Church into:
1. Overlooking the power and purpose of Jesus’ blood that has been sprinkled on the mercy seat as the propitiation for not only our sins, but the sins of the whole world.
2. To misrepresent the character of God, as an indiscriminate and unjust judge–especially when He is no longer judging (he’s given that authority to Jesus [John 5:22]) and Jesus judges no man. (John 12:47)
He WILL after the sixth seal is broken, but not now.Therefore, I believe the dates are a setup from the devil.
The Church is scattered, wandering around looking for a faithful shepherd. The poor little flock. They are suffering from drinking muddied waters and baby milk. Who will give them the true Gospel?
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#72 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
Diana, this is getting old now, and my last interaction with you over this.
The Lord Jesus shed His blood so salvation was open to everyone.
He did not die on the cross so New York State could legalize homosexual marriage and not be judged for it.
How many times do I have to explain his to you?1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.It is a gross misunderstanding of the Bible to say that because of this verse, God now longer judges sin.
Are you promoting universalism where everyone is saved? It sure sounds like.
It simply means that salvation is available to all.
It does not mean that homosexuals can fornicate in the streets on Gay Pride Day and the city not be judged for it.Your application of the Lord’s shed blood is flat out wrong.
God is not handcuffed in heaven where he cannot judge wickedness of a nation.
Your doctrine has blinded you to God’s holiness and the fear of Him.
It has allowed the vilest sin and making sin a law to go unchallenged by the church.
Because you do not fear the LORD, you do not think He will judge America.
Your false doctrine is deadly to a nation.
Your false doctrine leaves you powerless in prayer to intercede.Now I suggest that you repent of this false doctrine of applying the shed blood of the Lord Jesus to Southern Decadence and preventing the Holy God of Israel
to judging a wicked city.
Your doctrine aids and abets the advancement of sinful ordinances that brings God judgments on the nation, because, in your mind, God would never judge a nation for this.
You just sit back spiritually powerless, while the sin takes over and God’s holiness is offended.
God warns but you cannot see nor hear because of your wrong doctrine of the Lord’s shed blood.God is now systematically destroying the nation which I document on my blog for all to see.
I have a strange concept for you that God is in control of the weather and nature.
No hurricane hits without it being His will.
No earthquake hits without it being His will.
satan is not in control but the Holy God of Israel is.Psalm 107:33 He turneth rivers into a wilderness, and the watersprings into dry ground;
Psa 107:34 A fruitful land into barrenness, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein.
Psa 107:35 He turneth the wilderness into a standing water, and dry ground into waterspringsExactly like Psalm 107 states, He is in the process of doing this to America.
Once again, I ask you to repent of your false teaching about the Lord’s shed blood that would prevent the Holy God of Israel from judging wickedness during Southern Decadence.
Once you repent of this, you can then be used of the LORD as an intercessor.
In your present doctrinal condition, you are worse than useless, as you try and turn others away from the fear of the LORD.Psalm 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
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#73 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
The homosexual act is unclean and leads to the early death of those that practice.
You are a huge burden on our medical resources.
Homosexuals drain our mental health with all their problems including suicide.
It also spreads all sorts of health problems like sexually transmitted diseases.
Hepatitis C is caused by the unclean homosexual act. The bacteria is found in the colon.
It is now in the mainstream and highly contagious.
Plus, your act, when it is made an ordinance, brings God’s judgment on the nation.
Homosexuality is a very destructive force.Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
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John, you appear to be assuming that I’m homosexual. May I ask why? Not that I find your assumption insulting in any way, just that I’m wondering if the reasoning which led to it might be interesting.
According to Wikipedia, Hepititus C:
The primary route of transmission in the developed world is intravenous drug use (IDU), while in the developing world the main methods are blood transfusions and unsafe medical procedures.
Please explain how homosexuality causes early death.
While I’d agree that homosexuality can be involved in mental health problems, I’d argue that the primary cause of those problems are social. Bullying, ostracism and the like. If you’re arguing that homosexuality itself is the primary cause, I’d like to see some evidence, please.
Please provide evidence for the existence of this god, whose wrath is brought on by homosexual acts.
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Thank you for your time, John.
It’s obvious we are divided on the what the purpose of the atonement is.
My husband is grieved because he still doesn’t think you’ve explained why Jesus sprinkled His blood on the mercy seat as the propritiation for the sins of the whole world.
He wants to understand how you explain 1 John 2:2. Since it’s for the whole world, not just Christians, it either supports universal salvation or universal propitiation (forbearance of wrath). The Apostle John says it was for propitiation. This fits in with all the other scriptures in the New Testament.
My husband would also still like to know what you think the purpose of the atonement is if it isn’t to FORBEAR God’s wrath.
(I write for my husband because he is visually handicapped. I read comments to him and we discuss them.)
He understands that this conversation is over, but neither he, nor I, are satisfied with your response.
We just believe you are minimizing (or even discounting) the powerful work of the propitiating blood of Jesus. This is a serious matter.
So be it. Someday we will know who rightly divided the Word of Truth.
In Christ’s Love,
Greg and Diana Lesperance
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#77 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
Did you write a poem about me and wanted me to read it?
It not, I apologize and have the wrong person.The homosexual act is unclean and unleashes toxins in the body that destroy the immune system.
The Hep C bacteria comes from the colon. It started from unclean sexual acts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_C
The majority of evidence supports there being no risk for monogamous heterosexual couples.[27] Sexual practices that involve higher levels of trauma to the anogenital mucosa, such as anal penetrative sex, or that occur when there is a concurrent sexually transmitted infection, including HIV or genital ulceration, do present a risk.[27I really do not have time to research all the calamities associated with homosexuality, but I know they are many from general reading.
I do know from reading that even homosexuals that are not known as one, suffer from the same mental health issues.
I would imagine that the main reason is the conviction of sin by God’s Holy Spirit. -
I wrote a poem about those who worship a god who, by their own claims, punishes innocents for the supposed sins of others, and how I see that as, basically, kowtowing to a bully. As I’d never even seen this site at the time, nor heard of you, it wasn’t aimed specifically at you, though it was most definitely inspired by other people espousing the same ideas as yours. (My reason for commenting here, at first, was that you had, apparently, judged my poem as vile without reading it and without being made aware of more than a vague idea of the subject it addresses. I’d arrived here by following a link in the referrals section of my site-stats.)
That was, however, my major question, which seems to have become lost somewhere along the line: Allowing, for the sake of argument, that he exists, why would you worship and praise a god who does things which you would, quite rightly, vilify a human being for doing?
Sexual transmission is certainly listed on that Wikipedia page, but it isn’t the only vector by a long chalk. Nor can I find, anywhere on the page, the contention that “It started from unclean sexual acts.”
I really do not have time to research all the calamities associated with homosexuality
You mean you made the claim without having researched the matter? On what grounds, then, did you make the claim? I must admit to finding that a little, erm … dishonest. If I state an opinion, I make it clear that I’m stating opinion. If I make a factual claim, I make sure before making the claim, that I am, indeed, stating fact, to the best of my knowledge.
I do know from reading that even homosexuals that are not known as one, suffer from the same mental health issues.
Whether out of the closet or not, they still live in a society in which many people will persecute and vilify them for their sexuality. Plus, those who remain in the closet may find that the very fact of hiding their sexuality feels like living a lie, which may contribute further to stress-related mental health problems.
I would imagine that the main reason is the conviction of sin by God’s Holy Spirit.
You’re free to imagine this. If you want to compel others to abide by the edicts of this spirit/god, though, you really do need to provide evidence that the spirit and the edicts actually exist, and are worthy of obedience.
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#79 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
Diana, it seems that you and your husband are the only ones who have this problem.
In fact, I heard just about every argument you can imagine about why I am wrong,
you are only one who brought up 1 John 2:2 as a reason.
I can’t help if you can’t understand 1 John 2:2.
Somehow you leap from providing His blood for everyone in the world who will trust Him, and not universally applying His blood to everyone.
It is so clear that your doctrine handcuffs God, and allows for wickedness to go unchecked without God’s righteous judgments when needed. -
“My husband would also still like to know what you think the purpose of the atonement is if it isn’t to FORBEAR God’s wrath.”
…I hate to point out the obvious, but might the purpose of the Atonement be to atone for the sins of mankind?
And Diana, you still have not addressed this rebuttal of mine to your ideas about Judgement (particularly your words about children). It took me a while to write — I’d be glad if you could respond to it.
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“May I ask why you seem to have taken a personal affront at my use of a nickname I’ve been known by since I was 5 years old or thereabouts?”
I don’t know what gives you the impression I’ve taken affront at your name. I haven’t. It’s just that where I come from, Daz is a budget washing powder, and so I’d sooner use your real name.
“What I’m not fine with is you imposing, or seeking to impose, your tenets on others by force of law.”
Are you really so naïve?! Every government elected has an agenda which it will impose by force of law, and the hopes and wishes of one group or another will always end up squelched. And — irrespective of whether it’s right-wing, left-wing, Christian or secular — a government which doesn’t back up its plan with force or the threat thereof is not a government at all. For whom did you vote at the last election? Did they back up their electoral manifesto with legislation and force? You know the answer already…
And by the way, you’re really picking a fight with the wrong guy. You see, I don’t believe that Christians are called to vote for a “Christian government” to pass Biblical laws on a heathen land — though others here no doubt do. As far as politics goes, all I see in Scripture is that Christians are called to affirm the death penalty for murder (since that’s a pre-Mosaic ordinance to all humanity) — but that’s pretty much it. We are told that Jesus will return and set up His government and will rule over the world “with a rod of iron” — all in His good time. We don’t need to fix up a “Christian” government for Him: He’ll do it Himself when He’s ready. …And so you don’t need to worry about me “imposing my tenets” or whatever.
That point is really worth emphasising, since you seem to have a serious misunderstanding of what Christ taught His followers to do… At the time of His arrest and trial by Pilate, Jesus Himself said, “My Kingdom is not of this earth”, meaning that He was not in the business of earthly politics. Hence we are NOT to seek to establish a “Christian Kingdom” by force, or try to bring it about through political means.
False churches (like the Roman Catholic church) have in the past done just this — with horrific results (of which I’m no doubt you are aware). Socialist churches still try to turn Jesus into some sort of Left-wing politician, and have to distort His teachings to do so. This nonsense is not Christianity — it’s the political whoredom of false churches.
Jesus simply called His followers to live as He taught them to live and — most importantly — to preach the Gospel to anyone who’ll hear, that they might believe and be saved from their sins. …And He says that those who reject His words will suffer a deserved and everlasting punishment. …And societies which reject His message en masse and embrace the things He really hates will sooner or later be judged.
As for your corrected statement on blasphemy, the Bible is clear that your avowed lack of intention won’t wash with God. (Though I’m sure you don’t care.) I was going to urge you to seriously consider the possibility of an afterlife/eternal state, and to think about where you might spend it. …But rereading what you wrote, it seems that you have already made up your mind. Oh well.
So long…
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Your argument is not with me, Hope — it is with Scripture, the Apostles and Christ Himself. Your argument could be used to criticise The Lord’s own ministry, since there were those whom He Himself abandoned (from scribes and lawyers, to entire cities). …And by your reasoning even Judas was someone’s son. You are sentimentalising the Scriptures, and it will mess up your witness.
Certainly God does not create a soul hoping that it will perish — He makes it in His own image, and wants that soul to come to repentance and everlasting life. But there comes a point where God tells us to leave a rebellious soul alone. You may not like it, but your fight is with God there, not with me.
Sharing God’s good news with the lost is one thing, but if we wilfully continue to cast God’s pearls before swine, then we are disobeying Christ. You are confusing Scripture with your feelings. Stick to the former, and distrust the latter.
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“Sharing God’s good news with the lost is one thing, but if we wilfully continue to cast God’s pearls before swine, then we are disobeying Christ.”
@Paul, I think I’ll take my chances with “disobeying scripture” and go the extra mile to save a soul. Somehow, I don’t think the Lord would be too angry with me over my persistence. Of course, you may feel different. The person who may seem to be swine to you, may be just one more witness, away from receiving eternal life. Those who are out there witnessing for the Lord don’t need you to tell them when to move on, or that they’re disobeying scripture, the Holy Spirit who’s guiding them, will reveal that if and when it’s necessary.
I disagree with what you call “sentimentalising the scriptures”. A fervant love for the lost and hoping in God’s mercy, will never mess up anyone’s witness. Most people don’t have a problem with spending too much time witnessing. On the contrary, the problem is, the temptation to call everyone who doesn’t respond quick enough, “swine.” You mention pearls and swine, what about the ‘dogs’ ? Do dogs count ?
(Mathew 15:22) “And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.”Faith in God, believing that He will hear us on behalf of another, is important. Persistence and endurance is key when witnessing, and a genuine love for souls will go far. Not an impatient attitude for something to happen quickly or else you’re moving on. This woman kept coming to Jesus in behalf of her daughter, even when she was called a dog and considered not worthy of the Lord’s time by His disciples. We can keep coming to Jesus on behalf of another, over and over. There are obnoxious people who have been witnessed to for years, but friends and family didn’t give up and when something suddenly breaks, and they receive forgiveness – its glorious! But if they had listened to you, they might have given up too soon and kept their pearls to themselves.
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Given that I know next to nothing about the physical characteristics you ascribe to your idea of what constitutes a god, I’m at something of a loss to answer that.
Okay, the one physical thing I know that you ascribe to him is that he can affect the weather. So, what is your theory as to how he does this and what physical evidence do you have to support your theory; and by what means do you tell a weather phenomenon—like the recent hurricane—which is caused by God, from a natural storm?
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“Those who are out there witnessing for the Lord don’t need you to tell them when to move on”
I am not telling anyone to move on: I’m just pointing out what Jesus Himself told us. …That Scripturally speaking, there comes a time when we should simply leave someone in God’s hands and witness elsewhere.
“A fervant (sic) love for the lost and hoping in God’s mercy, will never mess up anyone’s witness.”
Where did I say that we should not have a love for the lost or hope in God’s mercy?! I merely showed you to some Scriptures, which you haven’t acknowledged. You are simply going to ignore them, it seems.
“Persistence and endurance is key when witnessing, and a genuine love for souls will go far. Not an impatient attitude for something to happen quickly or else you’re moving on.”
It’s not about instant conversions: it’s about how the message is received. Doubts can be overcome if they are honest; anger or even hatred may be turned to love. But those who despise the Truth (those who love to mock The Bible, for example) are unworthy of further time. The Apostles knew this. Jesus knew this. Yet you are effectively saying that you know better than they do.
Hope, read again what you’ve written: you’re setting yourself up as more loving and compassionate than Christ Himself. We were told to scatter seed, not to plant one seed and then hang around it indefinitely, trying to make it grow — Jesus taught that it’s what’s inside someone which determines whether they’ll receive the Truth or not. Many a believer has found this out the hard way — after years of “friendship evangelism”, they’ve seen their “project” say thanks but no thanks. We are to sow widely, because few seeds will germinate in the end.
Again, it’s what the Apostles did, moving from one area to the next, and it’s what Jesus Himself did. When the seed took root and grew, then discipleship could take place.
And as for the Samaritan woman, there’s no comparison with what I’m talking about. She was an evangelist’s dream come true. Look at her attitude — she was NOT a hard-hearted scoffer, she earnestly sought Jesus out, and when He rebuffed her, she humbled herself. …Such people are clearly not the same “swine” or “dogs” who are unfit to be given the Good News.
And you can contrast Christ’s attitude to the Samaritan woman with His words to the towns of Bethsaida and Chorazin — He pronounced woes upon them (i.e. He cursed them), and then left them, announcing that they’d receive a Judgement worse than that of Sodom. According to what you’ve written, had you been with Him at the time, you’d be slamming Him for His heartlessness!
Anyway, as I say, your quarrel is not ultimately with me — it’s with Jesus Himself. You can call me heartless if it makes you feel better (or more compassionate, morally superior, or whatever), but your problem is really with Scripture in the end.
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Paul, we are definitely not on the same page, so it seems fruitless to go on. I commend Diana for going the extra mile for those “unloveables” who other christians regularly turn away from. For her persistence, (faith) heart of compassion, willing to take on the hard cases that others won’t bother with. If not for people like Diana, (who are not as easily discouraged as the rest of us,) who will reach out to these? You can show me scriptures, but I can show you real life examples, where people were even threatened with death, and still kept sharing Christ, instead of shaking the dust off their feet, the end result being that the person was set free. In the last days because sin will abound, the love of many will wax cold. But not for all. Jesus said, when He returns will He find faith on the earth? Will we still believe its possible for God to soften the hardened heart if we stick our neck out? If we persist? If we truly believe all things are possible, we won’t give up too easy. Which is why I brought up the Samaritan woman. She might not fit in exactly in what we’re talking about except to show that she was persistant, and didn’t give up even though she was considered a “dog” by the disciples. There are many unsaved people out there who are unlovely and extremely obnoxious who are considered dogs or swine by certain christians and not worth our time, since they believe they are so hardened that they can never be saved. They are filled with demons who will argue with us, posing as the man himself. The object is to turn us away in disgust from the unlovely individual thus keeping him trapped. When we shake the dust off our feet, they get to keep their victim. We can quote scripture to justify our position, but who will go the extra mile? Who will persist? Who will fight for those whom Satan has bound? It isn’t easy to do. In Acts, if you look up words in the Greek, it seems they shook the dust off only when they were persecuted and when those they were trying to help, started fighting against them. But if one is willing to hear you, and if the Spirit of God is moving through you, then I say don’t give up. There is always hope, no matter how much, WE think they can
never be saved. With God, ALL things are possible. With God, there is always HOPE. -
“But those who despise the Truth (those who love to mock The Bible, for example) are unworthy of further time”
Paul, You’re saying that those who have doubt, anger, and hatred you consider worth spending your time on but according to you, those who mock the Bible are unworthy of equal time? Hate is ok, but mocking is not? You are dismissing a whole group of people as unworthy of eternal life when you say things like that. There are so many precious people who formerly mocked the Bible, who cursed those who witnessed to them, who are saved now. Many of them were Atheists. Do you just dismiss the Atheist as unworthy of eternal life? I’m possitive that Jesus doesn’t dismiss people the way that you do. You have set up your own standard that does Not reflect the heart of God. Many christians have first despised the truth, they now love, before they received the love of the truth, so that they might be saved.
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First of all, paragraphs, pleeeease, Hope! (Solid text is much harder to read.)
“You can show me scriptures, but I can show you real life examples, where people were even threatened with death, and still kept sharing Christ, instead of shaking the dust off their feet, the end result being that the person was set free.”
Again, you misunderstand what I’m saying: if someone is angry enough to threaten death, there is hope — since they are serious. Many radical Hindus and Muslims have gone from hating and persecuting Christians to becoming Christians themselves, and enduring real persecution as a result. BUT… If someone couldn’t care less, and just scoffs at God’s truth and considers it contemptible, then we’re told (even way back in Proverbs) not to continue casting what is holy before them.
“Which is why I brought up the Samaritan woman. She might not fit in exactly in what we’re talking about except to show that she was persistant, and didn’t give up even though she was considered a “dog” by the disciples.”
Hope, I sometimes wonder whether you read the Bible or just skim it! Read the story of this woman again — it wasn’t the disciples who called her a dog. It was Jesus Himself. …And she is absolutely NOT the sort of person I’m talking about, anyway.
I’d like to find some common ground between us, so I’ll end with saying that I agree with what you say about Acts 13 (it’s plain enough in the English, without resorting to the Greek): the people drove them out. …And the Apostles obeyed Jesus and shook the dust from their feet as testimony against them, for not receiving them. And I agree totally with you that if someone is willing to hear then we shouldn’t give up.
…But bear in mind that there are many people who pretend to be willing to hear, and who just string us along for a bit of a laugh, but their ears and hearts are shut tight. They mock us, and we must discern this and take God’s Word to someone who will hear.
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Daz,
Your position, that the categorization of fornication as a sin is the like being told I’ve been injected with a disease so that the Gospel can now be held out as the cure would, perhaps hold up under a sin such as fornication, but it doesn’t hold up under sins such as murder, cheating, or stealing another person’s things.
What if a person is a drug addict and steals from his grandma to get money to buy drugs? He feels so bad about it for good reason. It’s wrong to steal from your grandma! This person has no power to overcome his desire for drugs. But then somebody tells him about Jesus, and he finds forgiveness and power to conquer his desire. He has a new life. He has found a cure. He was doing wrong and he knew it. Sometimes people need a cure for things they are unable to overcome–even though they know it’s wrong.
You may be in total control of your life and may be able to justify your sins (whatever they are) in your own heart, but that doesn’t mean that all people are in your position. Some are grateful for the gift of forgiveness Jesus offers. They are grateful that Jesus empowered them and made them new.
I know I’m glad. I became a different person–a person who can even take on well-known preachers–even though I never raised my hand once in all of high school because I was so shy. And that is just the beginning of a long list of changes Jesus made in my life.
Like I said before, even talking to you is intimidating to me, but I’m doing it.
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Murder is always harmful. The harm can be demonstrated. Theft, ditto.
I’d be a fool to say that “casual sex,” for want of a better term, never leads to harm, but the harm is done by the way some people approach it, not by the act itself. I went into this subject some time back, in this post, if you’re interested in my views on the matter.
Yes, people have had their lives turned around by “finding Jesus” (and by other religions), but people have had their lives ruined by religiously-inspired feelings too, or by other people enforcing religious strictures upon them.
Furthermore, the fact that belief in a holy figure can inspire actions, whether good or bad, does not provide evidence that the holy figure exists; merely that the belief exists.
Regarding our drug addict stealing from his grandma, I certainly agree that the situation is more complex than if he’d merely been stealing because of ordinary greed. He finds himself in a situation where he feels, most probably, as if the drug, and therefore the money to buy it, is a dire necessity. Also, his head is probably messed up by that drug to the point where he’s not even able to think straight—it’s something of a self-reinforcing situation; the more drug he uses, the more he’ll be incapable of thinking things through, the more he’ll steal and buy more drugs, which will make him even less capable of clear thought … and so on.
So, yes, it’s complex, but complex situations need complex solutions. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that cold-turkey would damage him even more, he’s going to need the drug, or a similar one, for some time, in decreasing amounts; thus we’d end up choosing a “least harmful” option, having no “non-harmful” option available. We would, in all likelihood, take his addiction and his “not of sound mind” condition into consideration when addressing his thefts, and so on.
But the concept of sin, of an either/or, good/bad, morality does nothing to address such situations. It’s been my observation that, in debate, religious people (please excuse, I’m generalising) find it harder to deal with issues like this, which cannot be reduced to black & white, than do the non-religious—and that their difficulty with it increases with how “fundamentalist” they are. Which brings us back to “fornication.” The religious approach to a complicated issue, which can or might end in harm, seems to be not to treat it as the complex situation which it actually is, but to simply declare it sinful and tell people not to do it; to reduce it to the simple either/or situation that they wish it was, but which it can never really be. (Thus, if I’m being cynical, ensuring lots of donations from people seeking to assuage their guilty feelings.)
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I see you wrote some more, and you make an accusation…
“I’m possitive (sic) that Jesus doesn’t dismiss people the way that you do. You have set up your own standard that does Not reflect the heart of God.”
Hope, I showed you from Scripture before that there are indeed many people whom Jesus dismisses, because of their attitude to His Truth. …Yet you ignored this. Indeed, you seem so keen to rush out and save the world that you are uninterested in what Scripture actually says. (It’s notable that you twisted the passage you used to support your ideas, and took words out of Jesus’ own mouth.)
You will have big problems if you think that Jesus’ words don’t apply to you, and that you can cast pearls before swine and give what is holy to dogs. The commandment is from God Himself and it’s there for a reason. Atheists (or anyone else, for that matter) can be saved if they receive a love of Truth. But if they do not (and it’s entirely their choice how they respond), then there is nothing you can do to change that (you cannot — and God will not — override someone’s freewill).
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@Paul, no where have I said we can override someones free will, so don’t imply that. The disagreement between us is that you believe its according to the way people respond to the gospel, that should be the deciding factor in whether it is worthwhile persuing them or not. Some people because of their behavior you judge unworthy of your time ie mocking. To QUOTE you, you said, “those who love to mock The Bible, for example are unworthy of further time.” you also said, “BUT… If someone couldn’t care less, and just scoffs at God’s truth and considers it contemptible, then we’re told (even way back in Proverbs) not to continue casting what is holy before them.” UNQUOTE But in your OPINION those who are merely angry are worthy of our time because according to you they are serious? QUOTE, ” if someone is angry enough to threaten death, there is hope — since they are serious. ”
So you have personally decided that if a person mocks at the gospel, they are unworthy of being persued, but someone who is angry has shown himself more serious, therefore worthy of our time.
Paul, It is those who get extremely angry and actually go after us and persecute us, they are the ones we are supposed to turn away from. Because they are fighting against us and give us no other choice. But for any to merely mock at the Gospel should never deter any christian. Indeed you eliminate half of America! Many of those who mocked Jesus and yelled out “crucify Him” went on to be saved later on through the preaching of Peter, even though they had already heard the gospel from Jesus first. The Bible says cast not what is holy before the dogs. I can see from what you have written who you consider dogs, however, each christian will have to decide in themselves who they consider to be dogs. Most of the people around fit your description. Jesus disciples considered Samaritans, dogs. Jesus may be the one who called her that, but it was what all the jews believed at that time.PAUL SAID “Hope, I sometimes wonder whether you read the Bible or just skim it! Read the story of this woman again — it wasn’t the disciples who called her a dog. It was Jesus Himself.”
Paul, sometimes I wonder whether or not you read my comments. Did I say it was the disciples who called the Samatitan woman a dog? Read my comment again.
QUOTE, ““Which is why I brought up the Samaritan woman. She might not fit in exactly in what we’re talking about except to show that she was persistant, and didn’t give up even though she was considered a “dog” by the disciples.”
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Paul, the point I’m trying to make with the Samaritan woman is that Jesus may have called her a dog, but it was His disciples who CONSIDERED her a dog, and not worthy of the Lord’s time. To them, she was not worth saving. He was teaching them and us a lesson. All people have value. We need to take the time to reason with them, without getting offended so easily. Be willing to reason with them, no matter how obnoxious their speech, as long as they aren’t getting violent etc., and not make our own personal judgements about who is a dog or a swine, based on mocking behaviour alone, and not to make judgements according to our preconceived ideas about who is acceptable and who is not.
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#97 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
You asked for proof of God. The following from the Introduction of my book As America Has Done to Israel.
It is a good place to start. After reading this, let’s see what questions you have.
Through the years, I have spoken with many people about God and the Bible. On a number of occasions, the question was posed, What proof is there of God? A similar question asked is, How do you know the Bible is the word of God? There are many ways to answer this question, but I have taken the approach that the authority of the Bible being God’s word, can be proven through the history of the Jewish people and the rebirth of the nation of Israel. The rebirth of Israel is the key.
Understanding why God called the nation of Israel, its history, and prophecy related to Israel, all show the awesome authority of the Bible as the word of God. If Israel is understood spiritually and not just politically, an entirely new and exciting reality of the time we live in unravels.
We are now living in the time that the ancient Jewish prophets wrote about, the nation of Israel has been reborn and Jerusalem is once again its capital. The reality of God and the Bible then can be “proved” through the fulfillment of what the Bible states about the nation of Israel. What an awesome concept this is, Bible prophecy is alive before our very eyes!
The rebirth of the nation of Israel is unique among all the nations in history. The entire nation was destroyed, not once, but twice. Amazingly, after each devastation it came back into existence. Not only was the nation destroyed twice, but each time the vast majority of the people were taken captive into foreign countries. Yet, the Jewish people always returned to the land. All this points to the uniqueness of Israel. This nation is not like other nations.
In 586 BC, the great Babylonian king, Nebuchadnezzar totally destroyed the nation, Jerusalem and the temple. This destruction resulted in nearly all the Jews being taken captive to Babylon. When a people were taken captive as the Jews were, they usually were lost to history. The Jewish people were different. They remained in Babylon for 70 years and then returned to rebuild Jerusalem and their temple. This occurred 2540 years ago.
The Romans, some 650 years later in 70 AD, again destroyed the nation, Jerusalem and the temple. In 136 AD, the Jews again revolted against Rome. They were totally defeated and suffered the final dispersion into all the world. Very few Jews remained on the land after this war with Rome. The devastation was awesome. This occurred almost 1900 years ago.
Israel should have ended as a nation and probably as a people in 586 BC, but it survived. Israel, definitely should have ceased to be a nation in 70 AD, but as the ancient Bible prophets wrote, the nation was literally reborn.
After ceasing to be a nation for 1878 years, on May 14, 1948, Israel once again became a nation. In June 1967, Jerusalem once again became the unified capital of Israel. The Hebrew language was almost extinct, yet it was revived and today the Israelis speak Hebrew. They speak the same language as their ancestors. They kept the same religion while in exile. There is simply no other nation like Israel.
Several years ago, I took a tour of the biblical sites in Israel. The tour stopped at the museum of the Dead Sea Scrolls. In the center of the building was a large circular glass cabinet. This cabinet was huge in its circumference, and the complete Isaiah scroll was on display. The scroll was set in the cabinet and lit so it could be read.
I asked the Israeli tour guide if he could read the scroll. He went to the scroll and started to read a 2,000 year old document written in ancient Hebrew. He said it was somewhat hard to read because the letters were shaped slightly different to Modern Hebrew. As he started to read the scroll, I realized it was Isaiah chapter 59. I had him read back in the scroll until he found Isaiah 53 (The Bible was not divided into chapters until the 1500s). This chapter is one of my favorites in the Bible. To my amazement, he read this chapter to me.
A man whose nation was destroyed 1900 years ago read to me a language which was nearly extinct! The English language did not exist 2,000 years ago. It is very difficult to read English from only 200 years ago, never mind 2000 years.
What other nation is like Israel? What is the explanation for the preservation of the Jews and the rebirth of Israel? The explanation is found in the everlasting covenant God made with Abraham 4,000 years ago. The covenant is the reason the Jewish people and the nation of Israel exist today. -
“Jesus may have called her a dog, but it was His disciples who CONSIDERED her a dog, and not worthy of the Lord’s time. To them, she was not worth saving. He was teaching them and us a lesson.”
Hope, this is going beyond what the text actually says! From where in the passage do you get these things? You’ve berated me for harsh judgement, yet you yourself are now condemning the disciples themselves. I don’t think we’re meant to do this.
“To them, she was not worth saving.”
And again, read what the text says: it wasn’t even about her being saved — she was simply asking Jesus to deliver her daughter from a demon.
According to Scripture, it went like this… The woman fell at Jesus’ feet. She kept asking Him to cast the demon from her daughter. He didn’t. Eventually He made His comment, in which he casually likened her to a dog. Because she responded so humbly (as I say, she was an evangelist’s dream), The Lord praised her and healed her daughter. A wonderful passage — yet quite unlike the account you give of it. (And why bash the disciples and take words out of Jesus’ mouth?)
But again, this passage is really nothing to do at all with the issue in question. …Which is that God shows us in His Word that there comes a time when we are to cease witnessing to a person and move on (just as Jesus Himself did) — so when is that time? What are the criteria for “shaking the dust from our feet”? Tell me, Hope!
Scripture tells us that those who “received not the love of the truth” will perish: as Paul says in Acts 13, there are certainly people who “judge themselves unworthy of everlasting life” by their response to the Gospel. We should know when to witness and when to move on. It’s all I’m saying…
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Mathew 15:23 “But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.”
This woman followed Jesus crying LOUDLY after Him. She was following Him, begging Him on behalf of another, in this case her demon possessed daughter. Whats important to note is that she was coming on behalf of another, not herself, and that she didn’t give up even though she knew she was annoying the disciples and Jesus didn’t answered her cries. She knew full well that Gentiles such as herself, were considered Dogs by the Jews. The Gospel was sent to the Jews first, but because they rejected it in the Wisdom of God, the Gentiles were grafted in later. The disciples didn’t know that at the time and wanted Jesus to just get rid of her, since they felt she was just a Gentile dog, and had made herself a noisy nuisanse at that. They thought that Jesus must’ve felt the same way, because He didn’t answer her. But Jesus showed them and us something very different. They BEGGED Him to send the woman away, and because of His silence, they didn’t realise that Jesus wanted to HELP her. Sometimes we want to send people away that aren’t responding to the Gospel the way we think they should. Never approach people with your own preconceived ideas about how the love of God or the mercy of God should all be worked out. We may feel that after a couple times of trying to witness, that its enough and because the person mocks us, they’re not worth the fight. Don’t cast your pearls before the swine, you say, but are you possitive who you should call swine, or is it possible that you might be mistaken, like Jesus disciples were? Some people will argue and mock at the Gospel for years. Not because they want to, not because they take pleasure in mocking but because there is something inside of them that is driving them to ask you another question and another… They WANT you to prove them wrong. To make that thing inside of them, STOP. Just have patience and keep going. A soul is at stake. Someone Jesus died for and loves. We need patience. Never give up too soon. When Paul left the Jews, it wasn’t because he didn’t try, many times almost losing his life. Do you think a little mocking would be enough to make him stop? If you say yes, then you don’t know Paul.
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“The disciples didn’t know that at the time and wanted Jesus to just get rid of her, since they felt she was just a Gentile dog”
But I don’t know that you can rightly say that — certainly, the account in Matthew mentions their request to Jesus, yet you’re really still going beyond what we’re told in the text. And the fact remains that it was still Jesus who actually called her a dog. …But it seems we could quibble about this forever (and I get the feeling that The Lord might be telling me to stop arguing with you!), so perhaps we should just agree to disagree on this one.
“Do you think a little mocking would be enough to make him stop? If you say yes, then you don’t know Paul.”
I’m in (provisional) agreement with you there, Hope. However, the context and circumstances are everything: much of Paul’s preaching in Scripture is done publicly to crowds — some of whom would have listened, some of whom would have mocked. This is well-attested (for example we’re told of the very mixed reaction he received at the Areopagus), and it’s quite unsurprising. Paul would have continued in such a case, since there could still be some with ears to hear besides the scoffers — and he would have been mindful of them (as indeed should we).
However, to my knowledge, there’s not one case in Scripture where Paul continued preaching the Gospel one-on-one to an individual who openly mocked and scorned the message. Nor a case where any of the Apostles did. …And most significantly of all, there’s no instance where Jesus Himself did. (Indeed the Pharisees were always trying to mock and discredit His message — and you can see how He dealt with them!)
…So is there ever a time when you (personally) do move on, and leave someone to the Lord? As I say, the Scriptures show that there were times when both Jesus and the Apostles moved on. Under what circumstances would you do the same? I think it is an important question for each of us to ask.
And lastly I don’t want us to fight: we got off on the wrong foot, really (though we’re both on the same side), and our exchange did get rather heated at one point. I’m sorry if I upset you: if I did, then please forgive me, Hope. If I’m truly a Christian then my love for you is more important than winning some argument.
Anyway, I pray that The Lord will guide us both and make us of one mind with Him.
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Paul,
Just because I disagreed with you over a couple things never meant for one minute that I didn’t still love you as a brother in Christ. Why can’t we disagree with each other without thinking that were fighting with one another? I know I didn’t feel that way. If you want to know the truth, there is something that you said early on that was bothering me, and in a way I think that every single comment I made to you after that, I must’ve still had it in the back of my mind. You said to Diana, “But did you ever amuse yourself by mocking the beliefs of Christians and penning blasphemous poems to them? Honestly?”
It was that statement that made me think you just don’t understand the mindset of those who are lost or the power of Jesus blood to cover any sin, no matter how horrible. I started thinking if you think that’s bad what about murderers and Satanists etc? They have done much worse than writing a poem, no matter how bad. Later you said something similar, “If someone couldn’t care less, and just scoffs at God’s truth and considers it contemptible, then we’re told even way back in Proverbs not to continue casting what is holy before them.” Those two statement, plus other things you said, made me feel like you were giving up too soon. As if people who have acted this way weren’t worth the time.
Some people who are deep into sin, won’t get saved the first few times they hear the Gospel or even the first hundred times, because their minds are so bound. They need us to keep coming back without getting offended by whatever Satan inspires them to say at the moment, to put us off. It’s spiritual warfare, with so much going on in that realm, and it’s all about souls. We talked about all this. You asked me what I think. I think it’s up to each one of us as individuals how we will treat the lost.
Some Christians have decided they will call all homosexuals swine and won’t go near them with the Gospel, thinking they’re too far gone. For some it’s Satanists who they would never touch with a ten foot pole, their precious pearls remain selfishly hidden. For others it’s Atheists, or atheists who write poems trying to put their feelings into words to express the doubt and unbelief that has them bound. Who will take the time to go line by line and address the doubts, and confusion and the turmoil within the soul? Ultimately we all have to be led by the Holy Spirit and hopefully moved with the compassion of God. The Apostle Paul had so much compassion for the Jews, he said he could almost wish himself lost, for their sakes. He had continual sorrow in his heart over the lost Jews. I have felt like that over strangers I have encountered over the Internet, and over family members where the sorrow is so great its almost unbearable, but I will never give up on them. If they do end up going to Hell, they will know as well as I, that I did all I could. That I understood Satan had them bound and that I kept fighting for them without becoming personally offended by the things they said or their attitudes. It all boils down to faith, hope and love, these three. When these things are in us, we can’t easily walk away, because we know where they’re going. The love of God is poured out in our hearts and we just have to try to help them.
I’m not really sure, but I think the comment that began our discussion a few days ago was a comment I made commending the great job Diana’s doing, and I think that’s also the way I’ll end these comments with you, Paul. Diana has a heart for the lost and I commend her for the work she’s doing. I HOPE we can both agree with that. In His love… -
#103 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
It is the fulfillment of prophecy that was written thousands of years ago.
God has a covenant with the Jews over the land of Israel.
They are back and the next phase is Armageddon the the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
Israel is really all the proof you need to the authority of the Bible.Jeremiah 31:8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.(9) They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
Jeremiah 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock. -
I can trace the history of Israel and the Jewish people, and could show a chain of events leading to the formation of the modern state on Israel. I could show military and political causes, without once having to resort to the use of a god as an explanation. Nothing in that story would lead me to the conclusion that a god existed, or even lead me to speculate that one might exist.
Furthermore, how do you square the idea that God gave us free will (in order that we can choose to sin or not), with the predetermined universe which the concept of “prophecy” would imply? The two ideas are mutually contradictory.
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And, oddly enough, it was Diana Lesperance who prompted this reply when she also tried to cite Biblical prophecy as proof of God’s existence, on my own blog:
And another thing. The modern state of Israel was brought about by really stupid foreign policies on the part of the British government between the wars, and just as stupid knee-jerk reactions to a feeling of collective guilt about the holocaust after WWII. It has been built largely on the outright theft of land and property belonging rightly to the Palestinian people who’ve been living there for best end of 2,000 years. Theft which is still happening.
I find little to like in the tactics of either side in the ensuing conflict, but I can plainly see which side is being forced into a corner where violence, rightly or wrongly, seems the only option left open to them. And that side is not the Israeli side.
It’s hardly an honourable situation, and not one I’d personally find myself happy to use as a triumphant espousal of the correctness of my position, morally speaking.
Just saying, like.
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#106 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
There is no other country like Israel, not one.
The Jews were kept alive and then Israel a nation by the invisible hand of God.
What do you expect the nation to fall out of the sky?
God put people in power to fulfill His word.Do you see the war now brewing in Israel?
Armageddon and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ are very near.
There are massive wars coming in which hundreds of millions are going to die. -
#107 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
I have to be real blunt with you.
Israel stole no land and started no wars.
If the Arabs left Israel alone it would be tiny, but they tried to destroy it.
I would be very careful how you deal with Israel and make sure that you know history, because
you misunderstanding of Israel has lead you to reject it as fulfillment of prophecy.
Israel with Jerusalem as the capital are all the proofs you need for the authority of the Bible.Jeremiah 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say,
He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.I would hate to see you sealed unto judgment because you did not understand history.
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I also have to be blunt. “The Arabs” were already living in the land now known as (modern) Israel. Since the state of (modern) Israel was created, they have been forced (initially at gun-point, all too often, though only “unofficially”) off land which has been theirs for nigh-on 2,000 years and herded into ghettos; treated as second-class citizens in their own country.
Believe me, I do understand the history. I merely don’t see it through religion-tinted glasses.
However, the main point is that none of the above necessitates a god as an explanation. Therefore your “proof of God’s existence” would appear to be no such thing. All you’ve done is point to a situation and claim that it’s the work of God.
Care to try again?
(And, as an aside, I really would be interested in how you propose to solve the free-will/prophecy paradox.)
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#109 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
Israel is a nation with Jerusalem as the capital and you are trying to deny any connection to the Bible.
Once again, there is no other country like Israel in history.
Now, there was always Jews in the land since 2000 years ago. In fact, for many years they were the majority in Jerusalem.
There are no ghettos in Israel. The Arabs are free,
You are talking what the Arab brothers are doing to the Palestinians. The Jews did not do this to the Palestinians.
Whatever glasses you are using to view history has blinded you.You see the fighting now taking place in Israel. One of these battles is going to light the fuse to Armageddon
and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
Take those blinding glasses off and come to Jesus Christ as your Savior -
John, please point to where I’ve attempted to deny any connection between Israel and the Bible. I think you’ll find that I’ve attempted no such thing.
To rephrase what I didsay, and regardless of what we might feel about the rights and wrongs of the current political situation in Israel…
So far, your alleged “proof” of God’s existence has consisted of a claim, which you fail to back up with concrete evidence, that God has caused the modern incarnation of Israel to come into being.
We can all read history books and follow the military and political trends which led to the expulsion of the Jews by the Romans. Further, we can see the trends which kept the Jews together as various bands of families through history—both the internal ones engendered by their religion, and the external ones engendered by Christian antagonism toward them. Coming into more modern times, we can trace the various Zionist societies as they began to push for the reinstatement of Israel as a Jewish homeland. We can read the Balfour Declaration. We can read accounts of the horrors of the Holocaust, which engendered the feelings of collective guilt which culminated in the formation of the modern state of Israel.
All of the above were done by human action, whether inspired or guided by a god or not. So please explain to me why that history necessitates that we should infer the actions of a god to explain them.
Or, alternatively—and preferably, if I’m honest—please provide more direct and concrete evidence in support of the existence of your god.
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#111 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
I am having a very difficult time getting through to you on this.
What concrete proof do you want, that one day Israel was mysteriously a nation?
That all of a sudden a million Jews appeared in Palestinian and suddenly Jerusalem became the capital of a Jewish state?The Bible records an everlasting covenant between God and Abraham and the Jews down to today.
Moses and the prophets warned the Jews, if they did not keep the law, they would be punished and one punishment was to be banished from the land.
Because of the everlasting covenant, God would bring them back into the land.
This happened twice: Once in 600 BC with the Babylonians and then 70 AD with the Romans.
They came back to Israel because of the everlasting covenant!
The prophets said that the Jews would come back and Israel would be a mighty power.
The world would reject Israel, and there would be wars that Israel would win.
The final battle called Armageddon would take place in Israel and it would be over Jerusalem.
Israel would be about to be destroyed and this would trigger the Second Coming to Jerusalem.
Jesus Christ would then destroy this massive army and save Israel.
He will then judge everyone alive in righteousness.Well, the Jews are back after 2000 years and Israel is a nation with Jerusalem as its capital.
You are now looking in Israel at perhaps the first battle leading directly to Armageddon.
This might be the all-out war between the Jews and the Arabs that the prophets wrote would happen.Bible prophecy is alive and happening right before your eyes.
What more proof do you need but this?Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. (10) Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
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What concrete proof do you want, that one day Israel was mysteriously a nation?
As I explained above, I see no mystery in it.
You can assert all you like that your god had a hand in it, but all your assertions prove is that you believe it to be so, unless you provide corroborating evidence that it actually is so.
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#113 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
The Bible prophets predicted this starting with Moses 3500 years ago and even the Lord Jesus did 2000 years ago.
It has happened, as the Jews are back and Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.
The world is now racing towards and all-out war between Israel and the Arabs and then on to Armageddon.
This is all written in the prophets.
If you want corroborating evidence, I suggest you obtain a copy of my book As America Has Done to Israel.
In the book, you will see page after page of corroborating evidence, like the destruction hitting America when it interferes with God’s
prophetic plan for Israel. The Bible this will happen that do what America is doing to Israel.Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations:
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Jesus Christ 33 ADThe times of the Gentiles, none Jewish control of Israel, is drawing to a close.
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John, you and I appear to have very different standards as to what constitutes evidence. So, for now, let’s take the other tack.
Please explain the physics behind time travel (which is what prophecy is, after all—the receipt of information from the future), and the logic by which you square a universe which would allow the fixed future required by prophecy, and free will, which requires that the future not be fixed.
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#115 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
Daz, this was a great question.
I don’t know the answer within the known universe, but the answer is found in how universe came into existence.
Did something come from nothing? I hope that you do not believe that. Please tell us you don’t.
Or. according to the law of physics a body at rest will stay at rest, unless acted upon by an outside force.
By all the known laws, the universe should not exist unless there was an outside force: The Holy God of Israel!
Once you understand this, then understanding Bible prophecy is very simple.Isaiah 46:9,10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:I have enjoyed communicating with you.
If you send me a mailing address, I’ll send you a copy of my book, As America Has Done to Israel. You can send the address to mct911@aol.comI believe that we communicated about the fact that Great Britain was not be judged like America for the homosexual agenda,
I do not follow events in GB, so it difficult to gauge what is happening.
I do know that the Muslims are pouring into Europe and GB, plus the English are not having children while the Muslims are having lots.
A day of reckoning is coming for GB as Islam will put an end to decadence in GB.
The following video shows how parts of East London are now under Sharia law.
This is just a small picture of what is coming to all GB, as the God of Israel is turning Europe over to Islam for punishment. -
All your explanation of the origin of the universe does is move the puzzle back a notch. Instead of the question “how did a universe arise?”, we’re now faced with the question “how did a god arise?”
As it stands, first causes are a problem for both explanations.
None of which addresses the problem of how prophecy/time-travel wouldwork. Nor does it address the free-will/fixed-future paradox.
Nor, I might add, does the possibility of a creator-god in any way imply that that god would be the god of the Bible.
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#117 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
God transcends time.
The prophecy of the Bible about Israel, the first coming of the Lord Jesus, His Seconding Coming etc. show the
authority of the Bible.
The Jews are back in the land and Jerusalem is the capital.
The war leading to Armageddon and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is now staring you in the face.
It is going to run right over you whether you believe it or not.
What more proof do you need?Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come.
And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. -
#119 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
God is the creator and not the universe.
A you trying to reduce God to a mathematically formula?
It is like looking for the architect of a building in the building.
Transcend
to rise above or go beyond the limits of
to be prior to, beyond, and above (the universe or material existence)I’ve shown you prophecy that is 1000s of years old that you can see with the rebirth of Israel.
Prophecy 1000s of years old about Jerusalem being the capital once again.
This is proof that you can touch and see.
The wars the Bible warns about leading to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ are now about to begin with Islam.Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Right now you are looking at the start of the wars that will end non-Jewish control over Jerusalem.
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I know the definition of transcend. What I’m looking for is an explanation of how something or someone can transcend time. Presumably, this means that you believe that there is some—what, realm, or meta-universe?—which is somehow “outside” time. Since we live in a universe which seems to have time as one of its fundamental properties, this would seem to imply that the “realm” in question is actually outside the universe. Furthermore, it must pre-exist God, or he would have had nothing to exist in.
So, presumably you have some maths, or physical observation to back this claim up, yes?
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#123 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
This is a great question.
Radio waves exist but without a radio you could never detect and hear the waves.
God has a way of communicating with us and the wave length is faith.
Through faith in Jesus Christ it is like a radio and now you can listen to the waves that make music.
This is God’s way and without this the radio stays off and you have no idea radio waves exist. -
#125 written by JohnMcTernan 6 months ago
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The god of the present age is SATAN the devil. Bible confirms this. It is true that God brought judgement on House of Israel and Judah at the time of the old covenant. That is because God did not deal with the sin. With the new covenant God did deal with the sin and sent his only son to redeem the sinners. God has a plan for the humanity. It is being worked out now. God’s final judgement on the rebellious mankind will be at the 7th trumpet as in the bible. Until then there is no judgment on nations or people. What you find now happening are the beginning of Sorrows in the end of the age era. The originator of this sorrows are not God but Satan.
All these are the wrath of Satan.
I am sure as true followers of Christ we need to bring the truth to the attention of all people who are willing to listen and read what is said in the “Word of God”. Just speculating will do more harm than good to the people as a whole