Christians Now: “Enemies of the human race.”

119 Responses

  1. dontbefooled666 says:

    Please do not feel isolated or alone Cyndi. I’m sure I speak for MANY of us, in that our hearts go out to you, and our prayers are with you.

    To say that homosexuals have a lying and manipulative spirit is probably only the tip of the iceberg. By the time God hands a person over to a reprobate mind and homosexual tendencies, they are probably full of MANY demons.

  2. Josh says:

    @dontbefooled
    Well said, in fact I believe a powerful homosexual principality has been unleashed on the entire nation.

  3. Cyndi says:

    Susana-You are so right that we need truth and grace to stand, and endure. Staying in the Word of God and prayer is key and in fellowship with other believers that are as concerned as we all are. I am disheartened by the MANY professed Christians that are apathetic to what is happening in this country and also that actually believe along with the homosexuals that it is okay and same-sex marriage is okay; because “it does not hurt anyone and it is no one’s business who someone else ‘loves'”. It is sad to see. I think we can all agree we do not have to go far in our communities and it is all around us. I am in the Raleigh/Durham area. The latest ruling by the Supreme Court has fueled the homosexual community in our state to have Amendment One overturned. I feel it will happen. I feel everything will spiral down quickly until we meet the Lord Jesus. Even so, Come Lord! But we can be safe in His arms. He knows our burdens and is well aware of all that is happening, and knows how to keep us. HE rides the winds and controls the seas. We can abide in Him and be safe, He is ALMIGHTY God from everlasting to everlasting and more than able.

    dontbefooled666- THANK YOU!! It means so much that people do care and understand exactly what is happening. You are 100% correct that a reprobate mind is capable of anything. And yes, probably many demons. I hope its not too far a stretch to say that it is an unclean spirit/demon controlling them to carry out these evil deeds becoming a puppet of satan-manipulating everyone they can to agree with them. I’m not an expert on this, but I have done a lot of research and reading. Has anyone else noticed many male homosexuals have a feminine look, and the female homosexual a male look to them? I am not necessarily talking about their hair and dress, but something about the expression and eyes. I ‘see’ it in them.

  4. Janine says:

    “When Lot sat in the gates of the city of Sodom he was one of the Judges of that city and in a similar position as the judges who this week voted in the case striking down the federal Defense of Marriage Act. It was a 5 to 4 vote, and Justice Kennedy was joined by the four members of the court’s liberal wing. The ruling will immediately extend many benefits to couples married in the states that allow such unions, and it will allow the Obama administration to broaden other benefits through executive actions.
    Lot was found to be in the minority in his day as well. Lot’s children were also conditioned by the society around them. It was not that bad they thought. It is just giving them the same rights as those of us who are straight. It is just being fair for everyone.
    They had their Pride parades just like Toronto has had this week, and many other cities around the country now do.
    Pro 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
    So we can expect a mighty fall to come soon. Last week instead of teaching on Assyria I taught the group in Sarnia about the 70 Shabua of Daniel and what the passage in Daniel 9:24-26 actually does say and how when it is read correctly lines up with the rest of scripture. Daniel is being told that the fall of the USA and UK would come in 2020 the middle of this Jubilee cycle…..” (29 June 2013) http://www.sightedmoonnl.com/?page_id=867

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Please do not use homosexual terms such as “straight”.
      You are “straight” but normal.
      The are not “gay” but homosexuals.
      They do not have spouses or husbands or wives.
      They live in fornication.

  5. Joni says:

    I just wrote a long post, and it “dissapeared on me, poof, I know why too.
    My post was in reply to Cyndi saying she can “spot them” a mile away.
    I have finally come to realize, they are NOT OF GOD, and since God created us in His image, male and female, they are not of us, and a discerning spirit can pick it up, regardless of the clothing, mannerisms, etc.
    Years ago, I was a food server in Sodom.
    Every Friday night, the very same couple would ask for my section in a very well know establishment..
    They were obvious to me, men, cross dressed as women.
    Large men, in ugly dresses, with purses and nylons too.
    Their taste in clothing was the worst, and their hairy man legs looked bad in nylons, and they could barely stand up in their high heeled shoes.
    I waited on them, and since I was a lukewarm christian at the time, listening to luke warm lying sermons, I knew I better dare not “judge” lol!!!
    I was a young wife and mother who depended on her job also.
    I am much smarter in the Word these days, Praise God!!!!
    Nor do I need to accept it as supposed normal any longer, Praise God!
    Anyways…..
    I would present the check, and collect the money, and return their reciept, and say “Thank you Ladies” I remember it well.
    I always felt horrible, selling myself out it seemed, acting as if these were ladies when I knew they surely were not.
    I felt HORRIBLE, see???? My SPIRIT was made SICK BY THEIR LIE.
    I see it clearly now.
    And SADLY, unless Jesus gets us outta here quickly, there will be a whole lot more SICK SPIRITS if we have to have this perversion shoved down our throats, since it is LAW, and we NEED our jobs.
    Please Jesus, do not tarry.
    Please save our loved ones fast, and take us all away from this perversion soon.
    Amen

    God Bless us all,
    Joni

    PS My computer has not let me post on the blog for almost an hour. Maybe it thinks I had best attend sensitivity training?

  6. dan .w says:

    I agree with brother John…lets call it what it is.Since the rainbow is trashed,and gay lost its original meaning…lets call Sodomites,Sodomites…in everyday conversation.It’s not demeaning,..its the truth.Lets call homosexuals what they are..homosexuals..lets put the stigma where it belongs.We are not being meanspirited,but honest…If it turns off people,then maybe they should stop their repulsive behavior.We don’t need to be graphic,just honest.Its a shame we have to turn our heads to avoid the sin that soaks this culture…Its as if there is no place safe to look anymore.I agree with Joni…father God,get us otta here….I’ve seen way more than anyone has a right or need to.The Holy Scriptures are a safe place,and here,with all my friends/relatives in Christ.God bless and protect you all.Contend for the Faith.Dan.w

  7. Janine says:

    Good point John! So sad that people use words like ‘straight’!

  8. Mrs. CJB says:

    Joni @ #68 Hi – just had to let you know that your recollection brought back a similar weird memory of mine. My dad worked in Wash. D.C. and that is where I was born and lived for the first 19 years of my life. We rode the D.C. Transit (public) buses to school. When I was just a kid I remember seeing a man board the bus on several occasions dressed in the exact same way that you described – the whole nine yards – makeup and all. As a child, I was shocked but had no idea of the full implications of what I was seeing, but it was certainly burned into my memory. I was anxious to get out of Sodom too, but as we can all see, the entire USA is literally under the rule of this demon and it’s human minions. Jesus Bless and Keep you, Joni, and every Brother and Sister visiting here.

  9. Ryan Thomas says:

    Amen, to your comment about the rapture John. Your teaching, looking for that blessed hope, is excellent, and should be a blessing to anyone seeking truth.
    Also, to anyone that thinks there will be no rapture for you, and perhaps you think you will come out the other side to help repopulate the earth, like Noah’s sons and their wives . Please be shur it’s The Lord telling you this, and not a fiery dart.

  10. Janine says:

    Even so John, I try to look past people’s poor choice of words and into the heart of what they are saying.

  11. dontbefooled666 says:

    –Present in Rev. 5:7-14 are:
    the ONE who sits on the throne
    the LAMB
    4 beasts
    24 elders
    ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands of angels
    and the PRAYERS of the saints
    The Church is not present here.

    –Much of the Church is present in Rev. 19:1-9, but not her entirety. We see in verses 7-9 the declaration that it is TIME for the wedding feast, and we see the preparations being made (but we do not see that the feast is taking place at that time). After this is said, Jesus descends to the Earth to retrieve His bride (also see Matt. 24:29-31).

    –(There is little reason to make the leap of logic to say that the bride is the same as the armies of Heaven. God was known as the ‘Lord of hosts’ (Strongs H6635) throughout Old Testament times. The armies of Heaven existed long before the Church.)

    –The rapture takes place immediately AFTER the resurrection:

    ‘ . . . we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord SHALL NOT PREVENT* them which are asleep. . . the dead in Christ SHALL RISE FIRST:’ (1 Thess. 4:15-16)
    * prevent = precede

    –Revelation 20:4, according to Rev. 20.5, IS the (first) resurrection)–which according to 1 Thess. 4:15-16 happens BEFORE the rapture

    ‘ . . . This [is] the first resurrection.’ (Rev. 20:5)

    –Those present at the (first) resurrection, according to Rev. 20:4, includes those:

    ‘ . . . which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands’

    Therefore, the resurrection does not take place until AFTER the Mark of the Beast, and the rapture does not take place until AFTER the resurrection.

    Mark of the Beast –> resurrection –> rapture

    May the Lord open your eyes to this truth, as He has for many others. Amen

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Revelation 5, 7 and 19 all show that the church is heaven with the Lord Jesus Christ and not on earth.
      The church is before the throne.
      In Revaluation 5 with have the reference to the church in that it is only the church that is redeemed by the blood of the Lord Jesus from every kindred, tongue, people and nation.
      Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain,
      and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

      Revelation 7 is not one of the seal judgments. It is in between the judgments and it is a look back to what happened BEFORE the judgments.
      Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
      Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
      Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

      Then in verses 9-15 we see the church in heaven before the throne with the Lord Jesus.
      Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
      Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
      Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
      Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
      Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
      Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
      Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

      The saints killed during the tribulation period are not before the throne but are under the alter waiting for the completion of the judgments.
      The church is before the throne praising the Lord Jesus while the tribulation saints are under the alter waiting.
      Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
      Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
      Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

      The entire bride is at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. I have no idea how you could come to see the bride is not complete!
      Rev 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
      Rev 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
      Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
      Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
      Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
      Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

      After wedding, the bride is part of the Armies of heaven. The bride is dressed clean and white and so is the Armies of heaven.
      Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

      It is the resurection of the saints under the alter that takes place in Rev 20 as the bride returned with the Groom for the battle of Armageddon.
      Zechariah also sees the same thing. He sees the Lord Jesus returning with His bride.
      Zech 14:5 … and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

      If you would just understand the bride at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and returning with the Lord Jesus, it would clear up your confusion about the Lord coming for His bride.
      I hope that this helped you.

  12. dontbefooled666 says:

    Yes Josh, it’s called ‘God’s judgment’. The nation, for the most part, has been handed over to a ‘reprobate mind’ and vile passions . . . handed over to Satan, for the destruction of the flesh, in the hope that some may come to repentance. This is the beginning of God’s judgment.

    (My humble opinion–there are many powerful demons and they all promote various types of sexual immorality and perversion.) And sadly, this isn’t just in America–if you look at the headlines, it is happening simultaneously all over the ‘western’ world.

  13. dontbefooled666 says:

    (Yes, I have noticed that even their physical appearance changes.)

    You are right, the Lord is more than able to shelter us and to empower us. And I agree, the storm is just beginning. This has greatly empowered the wicked to move forward with their agenda.

    Sadly, many self-professed Christians are going to continue to side with homosexuals. In fact, this could well be the issue that brings out the ‘Judas’ in them, as they (self-professed Christians who really aren’t) seek to protect themselves by persecuting Christians that do stand on God’s word.

    Judgment begins at the house of the Lord . . . He is separating the wheat from the tares by allowing this to happen, to test who will still stand for truth, in the face of opposition. Those who don’t stand on the authority of His word, will end up folding under the pressure.

  14. B. Ross says:

    John, here is a copy of a second memo from the Attorney General in two days. It appears as if this is really being pushed hard onto us whether we like it or not. I have already spoken to the Chaplain here and asked if there was a way for me to opt-out from receiving this garbage. He wasn’t sure since no one has yet asked him about opting-out.

    (letter)
    To: All DOJ Employees

    From: The Attorney General

    This message is an update on the Justice Department’s work to implement this week’s landmark decision in United States v. Windsor, holding Section 3 of the Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional. The Court’s ruling is a victory for equal protection under the law for all members of our society, regardless of sexual orientation.

    I am pleased to provide additional information today on certain federal benefits that we can now make available to Department of Justice employees who are legally married to a person of the same sex. As provided in more detail in the attached memorandum issued by the Office of Personnel Management, we will now be able to extend benefits such as health, dental, vision, life, and long-term care insurance to federal employees who have legally married a spouse of the same sex. The attached memorandum also provides guidance regarding retirement and flexible spending accounts.

    The changes discussed in this memorandum will make a real difference in the lives of many of our employees. But this is only the beginning. The Department will continue to coordinate with other federal agencies, as swiftly as possible, to ensure that we make real the promise of the Windsor decision. We will provide additional updates to you as they are available. Please direct any inquiries to your component’s human resource office.

    We look forward to working together as we continue to implement this week’s decision.
    (end of letter)

    John, if you don’t mind I am going to send you an email with an attachment in PDF form. It contains more info on the “Benefits to Married Gay and Lesbian Federal Employees” (gay was their choice of words; it should have said “Benefits to Sodomite Federal Employees”).

  15. Nancy says:

    14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
    15 ¶Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance.
    16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.
    17 For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.
    18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
    Psalm 89

  16. Ryan Thomas says:

    Dear Cyndi, Another thing that’s easy for me to pick up from these people is their voices and words. Many many of them are under the influence of demons, and many are actually possessed. One reason they become violent, obnoxious, mean to a follower of Jesus, is because the evil spirits don’t want to give up ground. They don’t want their subject to be exposed to the light of The Lord through you. So they influence there subjects to chase us away, before the language of truth, chases them away.
    Love to you.

  17. dontbefooled666 says:

    Only a (false) pre-Trib Rapture doctrine would allow for the possibility of Christians to live through the Tribulation and repopulate the Earth.

    A true understanding of God’s word shows that ‘after the Tribulation of those days’ (Matt. 24:29) is the resurrection/rapture.

    1 Cor. 15:51 plainly tells us that not all Christians will be dead when Jesus returns, but we will ALL be changed. At that time, we will receive ‘glorified bodies’ and we will not be marrying or given in marriage any longer–hence, no Christian will be repopulating the Earth.

    The ‘blessed hope’, if you read the passage in context, is speaking about being reunited with loved ones who are ‘dead in Christ’ . . . not about an escape from tribulation or persecution. Jesus promised us both.

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Your misunderstand of the Blessed Hope is breath taking!
      We are to live with the Blessed Hope, which the Bible clearly states is the coming of the Lord Jesus for His bride.
      Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

      After He comes for His bride we are blessed to be at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb
      Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

      The Blessed Hope has nothing to do with escape, but it has ALL to do with the Groom coming for His bride.

      From your Comments are am understanding that you are not living with the Blessed Hope and thus being robbed of joy and the blessings of God.
      Even your name with 666 in it, shows that you are looking for the antichrist and not the real Christ.
      This thinking of yours is because of your incorrect understanding of prophecy.

      I suggest that you jettison this doctrine of yours and live with this verse:
      1Thess 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

  18. Ryan Thomas says:

    Hi Nancy, Whenever I’m somewhere near their habitat, I listen for the evening song of the Veery.
    It’s so beautiful it automatically sends upward the corners of my smile. But not even the Veery can lift me as high as those verses of Psalm 89.
    Love to you.

  19. Ryan Thomas says:

    If there’s anyone out there, that is thinking they might come through the trib. Period, having not been raptured and help to repopulate the earth. Like Noahs sons and their wives did. Please make sure you are hearing this from The Lord before you make a stand on it. It could be one of those fiery darts from hell, trying to confuse you, and keep you from looking for that blessed hope and living with the blessings that go with it. I hope this is more easily understood.
    Love to all.

  20. dan .w says:

    Amen brother John. Danw

  21. Ryan Thomas says:

    Hi all, here is something to let sink in, about us, the born again age of grace saints. Us the body of Christ, the Church. Us the soon to be Bride of Christ Jesus. We will be granted to sit with Him in His throne. And all the Kingdom will be given unto us. Revelation 3:21. Wow, my, my, my, what a destiny and abundant life awaits us.
    This is only for us, that are looking for that blessed hope, of Jesus coming and calling us up to meet him in the air. Those born again saints that have died looking for Him, and we that are occupying till He comes. The trib saints may live and reign with Him, and serve Him as priests, but they won’t be part of the bride. We will be the brightly shinning ones, high royalty in the kingdom of God.
    What awesome wonder has been given to us.
    Praise and glory to God forever.
    Come Lord Jesus, we long to know you more.
    Rejoicing in you El Shaddai.

  22. Cyndi says:

    Ryan-Yes, Yes! It is in their conversation, voices, and mannerisms! It is very unnatural. Also offensive to born again Christians becuse we know they are influenced by demons and satan. It is grossly vulgar and wrong. I know that something within me is ‘pricked’, an sense of evil and of wrong. I was at a neutral hall where I work scanning and a homosexual came up and waited to use the machine. I spoke and said hello. But I was VERY uncomfortable. I immediately knew he was a homosexual and the inside of me was in turmoil. I could tell he was equally uncomfortable. There is no doubt that a spiritual warfare takes place when the two are confronted. I had another experience like this, but it was not a homosexual. It was someone that was a drug addict and devoid of God. I knew he had a demon in him. My spirit within was in turmoil.

    Thank God we can all come here as brothers and sisters in Christ and express these burdens to one another and encourage each other!

    I admittedly need help with loving these people. I would never want anyone to go to hell. But how do we love those that hate God? How do we love those that hate and mock our Savior? How do we love those that want to hurt us and are destroying the foundations of our society?

  23. Joni says:

    Cyndi, I agree, I have the same feelings about what you wrote.
    HOW do we love them when they are so evil?
    How???????

    God Bless us all,
    Joni

  24. Cyndi says:

    Joni- I believe God means that we love their soul; that no matter how wicked they are we would hope they not end up in hell for eternity. I don’t know how else we could “love” them the way we know and express love. I would not want the worst person be condemned for eternity. With my personal life as with what I explained happened, true enemies were revealed. I struggle with loving them. How do I love my step children who lied before court officials to have me arrested falsely? How do I love those that have made up stories in hopes my husband would divorce me? It is difficult. I’m sure all of us have tests and trials personal to us. But it’s heartbreaking to hear the vile and ungodly comments about Christ. There was an article and photograph displaying the famous picture of the Lords supper but homosexuals had replaced The Lord and disciples with -almost nude- pictures of themselves in their place blaspheming The Lord Jesus. It just doesn’t get any sicker. Nothing surprises me anymore as Dr John has explained many times we have become a reprobate nation and the ungodly and blasphemous are celebrated.
    Love to my brothers and sisters in Christ. May The Lord encourage you and keep you –

  25. Ryan Thomas says:

    Hi everyone, We hate the evil of the day, that is everything that exalts itself against the Holy God of Israel, against His Son, against His Word, against His Nature. We love them, because God loves us. We are all cowards, subject unto the fear of death, and unable to love like God does, until we are born again of The Holy Spirit.
    So many people are living in the bondage of fear, and suffer all the day long in torment. Their spirit barely squeaks, and their soul longs for relief. For many different reasons, they haven’t reached for Jesus, for that relief yet. They reach for the slicksters with the smooth words, that tell them their actions are wonderful, including taking drugs , fornication of all types, and all the worldly things. Which, in reality, brings them even closer to hell. Many will not make it.
    This dosn’t mean we have to subject ourselves to abuse by them.
    Many people that are influenced by demons, are going through a season. If we seek out demons on our own, and cast them out, or away, the person may not be ready to repent. And the demons might come back. The Lord knows if they are ready. Then He makes sure someone crosses their path that He can work through. That’s when miracles happen, under His timing. John McT is exactly right, by asking for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit on us who are already saved,so that we can be more available for his purposes. That is sound thinking.
    We keep living, speaking, praying, preaching, teaching, learning, loving, exhorting, praising God, and some will call on the name of The Lord.
    Sorry this is long, but the words kept coming.

  26. Irv says:

    Readers might profit by Googling “Pretrib Rapture Secrets,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” and “Pretrib Rapture Pride.”

  27. dontbefooled666 says:

    If you are saying that the saints under the altar are not resurrected until Rev. 20, AFTER when you say the marriage supper happens–then would they not be missing the marriage supper? Are they not part of the bride too? Are not ALL Christians part of the bride?
    —————————————————————–
    In Rev. 19, before Christ returns to the Earth, the bride is not in Heaven in her entirety, because there are still Christians alive on the Earth.

    The second coming is NOT a separate event from the rapture. The rapture happens AT the second coming.

    Rev. 19:7 is merely the announcement that it is time for the Lord to go and get His bride . . .time for the resurrection/rapture . . . time for the ‘second coming’.

    At this time Rev. 24:29-31 (resurrection & rapture) occurs (while the Lord is still approaching, in the air–1 Thess. 4:17), THEN Rev. 19:11-21 (the wrath of God poured out on the nations) occurs, when the Lord returns to the Earth. (The bride and the armies of Heaven, of course, accompany Him back to Earth.)
    —————————————————————-
    Rev. 7:9-17 is the CULMINATION of what the angel said in the fifth seal ‘ . . . and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled.’

    Revelation 7:9-17, the multitude in white robes, shows that this has been fulfilled. The great multitude in white robes are they which came out of the Great Tribulation (Great Persecution) via martyrdom.
    —————————————————————–
    Rev. 20:4 describes SOME of those who rose in the first resurrection. It is not only those who did not take the Mark that are there, but ALL Christians are there, even though they are not ALL mentioned.

    (If you say that the rapture takes place BEFORE the Tribulation, then Rev. 20:4 would have to be wrong, because it could not possibly be the FIRST resurrection–because we are clearly told in 1 Thess. 4:16 that at the rapture, the DEAD in Christ will rise first–this is the FIRST resurrection. Therefore, the preTrib rapture doctrine conflicts with Scripture.)

    Rev. 20:4 includes ALL who were resurrected and raptured, because the resurrection/rapture IS the first resurrection–(and because Rev. 20:5 tells us that Rev. 20:4 is the FIRST resurrection).

    Rev. 20:4 tells us that in that first resurrection, were those who did not take the Mark of the Beast. Therefore, the FIRST resurrection/rapture does not happen until AFTER the Mark of the Beast and the martyrdom of all who refuse it.

    There is NO preTrib Rapture.
    ————————————————————-
    I can see that you have spent a lot of time studying and seeking insight into this subject. Please seriously pray about what I am saying, because if I am right and you are wrong, then you are misleading your readers, rather than preparing them to endure, and for the persecution that is coming. I do not believe that is your intention, but nevertheless . . .

    (You can edit this paragraph out of the comment, if you wish)

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      I have explained the rapture of the Church and the coming of the Lord Jesus in my teaching,
      Looking For The Blessed Hope http://www.defendproclaimthefaith.org/the_coming_of_the_lord_jesus_his_church.html

      What I glean from your teaching is confusion and assumptions.
      You are confused about the church and tribulation saints.
      You refuse to accept the entire church is in heaven in Revelation 19 at the marriage supper of the Lamb. This is the major source of your misunderstanding of prophecy about the Lord’s coming for His church.
      You are very confused about Revelation 7, as it clearly states this is a look back to before judgments on the earth.
      The one verse that really shows your misunderstanding of prophecy is Zech 14 and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
      The Lord is returning with ALL His saints to Jerusalem to save Israel. The entire church at the marriage supper of the Lamb returns with Him to JERUSALEM.
      Do you believe that Jesus Christ is returning with His bride to Jerusalem?

      Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

      What your doctrine does is rob the believers of the joy of the Blessed Hope as you focus on the antichrist.
      Your faith tends to be powerless, I am not saying you are. But people who believe like you are usually powerless as you focus on the antichrist.

      I think the verse you need to focus on to free you of your misunderstanding of the coming of the Lord Jesus is this one:

      1Thess 1:10
      And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

      When you are waiting for Jesus Christ, instead of the antichrist, it will revolutionize your faith and put power into it.

  28. dontbefooled666 says:

    My name is the title to my blog. It began as a blog to help warn people and help them discern the antichrist. You are stretching to say that I am looking for the antichrist. (You are beginning to ‘attack the messenger’ . . .)

    My hope is fully in Christ. Great power will be poured out, via the Holy Spirit, on those who know their God, during the Great Tribulation. We have no cause to be afraid.

    The blessed hope is the RESURRECTION, and our reunion with all of our Christian brothers and sisters who are asleep in the Lord, and of the beginning of our eternal life with our Lord.

    The fact that His return is at the end of the Tribulation does not make it any less a ‘blessed hope’ . . . however, most who believe in a preTrib Rapture have made a false snatching out of the jaws of persecution and tribulation THEIR blessed hope.

    I am sorry to see that you have so much invested in this doctrine. Had I know that, I might never have even bothered to comment on your post. It is impossible to pry a man away from something he truly wants to believe.

    May the Holy Spirit give you the willingness to consider that your understanding might be wrong, and may He open your eyes to the truth, if it is.

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      I already mentioned to you that the Blessed Hope has NOTHING to with escaping from anything.
      It is a living reality of of the bride looking for the Groom.
      The Blessed Hope is the Lord Jesus returning for His bride and going to be with Him at the marriage supper of the Lamb.
      You have reduced this wonderful love relationship to escapism.
      Revelation 19 clearly shows the entire bride is in heaven at the marriage supper of the Lamb.
      Somehow your doctrine will not allow this, so you make up things.
      Please let the truth of the entire bride at the marriage supper of the Lamb, and this will free you of error so that you can live with the Blessed Hope.

      Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

  29. dontbefooled666 says:

    First, we have to understand that love is not a feeling.

    Love is a pattern of behavior towards another person.

  30. Barbara in VA says:

    doublefooled666: John has done a wonderful job of teaching you the real truth of scripture. However, you are stubbornly holding on to your own beliefs and interpretations. I am not the Bible student that you are nor am I very good with words; but reading through your dialogue with John on this subject, there is one glaring thing that you seem to be overlooking! You have not mentioned Israel and that makes me wonder if you are also a believer in replacement theology which would explain your insistence that the church is going through the tribulation. The one thing I have noticed over the years, that the main difference in belief concerning this subject has to do with whether a person thinks that the church has replaced Israel and is now “spiritual Israel” and that all prophecy concerning the last days is talking about the church.

    I do know enough or have learned enough over 35 or more years of trying to understand prophecy to know that John’s teaching is the correct one. But the one thing that has not been mentioned is the reason for “The Tribulation”. It is the last week of Daniels “70 weeks” and it has absolutely nothing to do with the church. By the way, I have also met people who think Daniel has nothing to do with end times. However over the years, it has become my understanding that “The Tribulation” has to do with God’s bringing Israel to the point of acknowledging Jesus as The Messiah! God is dealing with Israel and those unrepentant sinners who remain on earth after He has taken his Bride to Heaven!

    It always saddens me greatly when this subject comes up because it seems to cause such a rift between those of us who worship the same Jesus. For years and years, I have never understood why those Christians who do not believe in a pre-trib rapture want to take that Blessed Hope and the joy of waiting for our “Groom” from those of us who are looking for His Glorious Appearing.

    God bless you!

    Maranatha!

  31. Barbara in VA says:

    Wow: Did I make a Freudian slip. Dontbefooled666, I do apologize–the way I spelled your “name” was entirely accidental. I’m afraid I will have to blame that one on old age and being in a slight hurry! Please forgive. Maranatha

  32. Ryan Thomas says:

    Dear John McTernan, Your posts have been more than plenty to shed the light of truth on this subject with dontbefooled666. But please allow me to make a few observations too.
    Dontbefooled666, the first sentance of rev20:4 is the bride, the next one, are the trib saints.It infers, and I saw souls.
    Your version of the rapture would not be immanent , because everyone could count 7 years from when antichrist signed the 7 year peace deal with Israel. Nor would it be a fairly normal time , Luke 17:25-30. The battle of Armageddon would have been raging and all the judgements, and most if not all the man made structures in the world being destroyed, Rev 16:16-21.
    You are also saying the wise girls are the same as the foolish, math 25.
    In the true rapture, Jesus comes DOWN from Heaven, and calls us UP to meet him in the air and receive our glorified bodies, in the twinkling of an eye. 1 Thess 16:16-21. 1 Cor 15:51.
    The trib saints are under the alter complaining and waiting for theirs. Rev6:9. No twinkling of an eye there. No coming down or calling up.
    Remember, the word of truth is spiritually discerned, not understandable by mans intellect alone.
    Most people I’ve encountered, that didn’t believe the pre- trib rapture, were under the influence of a replacement theology spirit. Not only do they fail to discern between the Church and the trib saints, they also fail to discern between the verses that are for Daniels 70th week, and Church also.
    We, the age of grace Saints, are not appointed unto wrath.
    Also, this is how the Church prepares. By developing our relationship with The King of Kings, praying, and putting on the armor of light. 1 Thess 5:7-8
    Love to you.

  33. McClean says:

    @dontbefooled666…

    Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh

    WITH

    ten thousands of his saints, (Jude 1:14)

    The Lord comes WITH … not for His Saints, His “jewels”:

    (15) To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

    We are WITH Him; call UP first… as “a trumpet” (Rev 4:1). Where He is and as He is, so shall we be also… at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb; a long one… for “them that look for Him”.

    (Heb 9:28) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

    (1Th 5:9) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Be of good courage, and he shall strengthen your heart, all ye that hope in the LORD. (Psa 31:24)

    Lord Jesus told His disciples to LOOK UP (why?) “when these things begin to come to pass”… explaining why:

    (Luk 21:28) And when these things begin to come to pass, then LOOK UP, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

    Redemption… by our Lord Jesus, King of glory and our “Blessed Hope”:

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should NOT PERISH, but have everlasting life. (Joh 3:16)

    Mal 3:17-18
    (17) And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and

    I WILL SPARE THEM,

    as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

    (18) Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

    Luk 21:31-33
    (31) So likewise ye, when ye SEE these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
    (32) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
    (33) Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

    Watch, pray and “look up”… the Lord cometh! Soon!

    Maranatha!

  34. bjy123 says:

    John McTernan, back in 2008 I got angry over where the country was headed. And I wrote a paper that blasted & rebuked the Preachers in this country for not SPEAKING out against EVIL. If they would have ALL joined together & fought that Madelyn Murray O’Hair they could have won in court. Same as with pornography. ALL the Preachers could have & should have fought to keep that smut out of our country. Instead, they kept quiet & ignored what was happening. I blame those in the pulpit because they use to have a lot of power with families. If they would have spoken out & gotten families involved in the fight, we all would have been better off. There wouldn’t be as many broken families as there are now. And I totally blame that on pornography.
    I’m in total agreement with you.
    Preachers are suppose to protect the sheep. Instead, they’ve been allowing us to be devoured. Shame on those who haven’t done their jobs. They’ll stand accountable to a much higher degree, than all of us will.
    I just bow my head in unbelief of how fast this nation has deteriorated. And all because of sin. Those old preachers were right when they said to stay on the straight & narrow. I was born in 1955 & I still remember hearing the old time preaching. And it was good for my soul.
    God bless!

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      I’ve think hard and asking the Lord what is the root of these powerless preachers and church leaders.
      I see them as powerless and cowards.
      The Lord will show us what is the root of this.

  35. Ryan Thomas says:

    Amen, Barbara in VA,
    Dontbefooled666, you might be he holding up the rapture. He might be waiting for you.

  36. Ryan Thomas says:

    Amen, McClean, something tells me , it’s MrClean though.

  37. Mr. Clean... aka McClean or Jeff says:

    Thanks Ryan. Gee… must have been a typo! 🙂

  38. dontbefooled666 says:

    I’m sorry if I’m not explaining things in a way that you understand–because it IS clear to me that you don’t understand what I’m saying.

    Rev. 19:7 is not the wedding supper itself– it is merely the announcement that it is TIME for the Lord to go and get His bride . . .time for the resurrection/rapture . . . time for the ‘second coming’.

    Also, you claim: ‘Revelation 7, as it clearly states this is a look back to before judgments on the earth.’

    There is no such clear statement, as you claim.

    Nor do I have a problem with Zech. 14, as you accuse. When the Lord returns, we MEET HIM IN THE AIR (1 Thess. 4:17) and then we–the resurrected/Raptured bride–return with Him to the Earth.

    The chronology of events:

    1. The announcement is made that the time has come (Rev. 19:7)
    2. Jesus leaves to get His bride (Rev. 19:11)
    3. The dead rise first, to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:16)
    4. Living Christians rise next, to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:17)
    5. Together, the Lord and His bride, and the armies of Heaven return (Zech. 14:5, Rev. 19:14, Jude 1:14)
    6. The Lord and His armies execute judgment on the nations that are gathered in the valley of Meggido (Rev. 19 and many other places)

    Your accusations that I am looking for the antichrist are baseless, and a diversion from the subject at hand. To my recollection, in all I have said on this thread, I have not discussed the Antichrist at all.

    You are assuming a great deal about me.

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Look at you name it even has 666 in it.
      This is your message is it not? The coming of 666 and not Jesus Christ.
      The marriage supper is in Revelation 19 as it is ready. The wife is ready.
      Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
      Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

      The wife is ready in heaven. She is dressed in clean white linen for the marriage.
      There is no hint of a delay as this is the marriage.
      The bride returns with Jesus Christ as part of the armies of heaven. This army is dressed in clean while linen exactly like the bride.
      Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

      These are the saints that Zechariah states are coming with Jesus Christ, His bride.

      I really think that we have gone over this enough.
      I can see that your misunderstanding of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is what is at the root of the conclusions you come to.
      As long has you hold that the marriage supper does not take place in heaven during Revelation 19 there is no use discussing this any further as we just go around and around.

  39. dontbefooled666 says:

    Clearly you have misunderstood what I said.

    Certainly, the entire bride WILL BE at the marriage supper. Rev. 19:7, as I have said before, is not the supper ITSELF, but the proclamation that it is TIME for the supper.

    Then, the next thing we see, is that Jesus returns to the Earth, to gather the rest of His bride (that is still living) and to resurrect the saints that are asleep.

    As 1 Thess. 4:15-17 states, we will meet Him in the air when He comes (then we will return to the Earth with Him).

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Once again, as long as you cling to this interpretation of the marriage supper of the Lamb there is no use continuing.
      When you deny something as clear as Revelation 19 and the marriage supper is in heaven with the entire church present, it is time to stop.
      The bride is ready and dressed for the event, so how can we continue?
      I have learned, when a person does what you are doing, it is time to stop.
      What I do not like about your approach, which is very common with people who believe like you, there is an arrogance that I am deceived
      and you are going to prepare people for the antichirst and 666.
      You are looking for the antichrist and 666.
      I am looking for Groom, which is exactly what the Bible tells me to do, exactly.
      You would be wise to stop you attack on this belief, as the Lord will harden you into error.

  40. dontbefooled666 says:

    Ryan, I do not believe in two separate groups: ‘tribulation saints’ and ‘the bride’. Only a preTrib rapture view necessitates such a separation.

    You are exactly right, I do not believe the rapture is imminent. I also believe the idea that the antichrist signs a 7 year peace treaty is something that needs to be more fully examined. (In other words, I do not believe that Dan. 9 is speaking about a peace treaty. If you read the WHOLE chapter of Dan. 9, you will see that it is talking about THE COVENANT between Israel and God–not A covenant between many nations.)

    NOBODY, including the souls of the saints under the altar, receives their new body until the resurrection/rapture.

    As I explained to Barbara, I don’t believe in replacement theology. In MY experience, all of the people I have recently met who do NOT believe in a preTrib rapture also DON’T believe in replacement theology (or I would have disputed that with them). lol

    You are very right, that spiritual understanding comes via the Holy Spirit, not via our natural understanding. And the Spirit is opening people’s eyes on this subject every day.

    This fact (spiritual revelation) also ties in, I believe, with what you were getting at when you said that the Tribulation would not be a normal time. God can hide the truth in plain sight, and only those with spiritual eyes will see it.

    Part of the reason that people will not know they are in the Tribulation, is the great delusion that God will send (see 2 Thess. 2). Remember that God says the day is coming that those who persecute us will believe they are honoring God by doing so. This is an example of how people can be very deluded.

    And, stop and imagine for a moment–the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of all the hopes and dreams of wicked men. He will allow everything their wicked hearts desire, and he will strengthen them in silencing the voices of righteousness. (That persecution = The Tribulation.)

    What is ‘tribulation’ to us, will be a ‘golden age’ to the wicked . . . but only briefly. Not only do they not believe or understand Scripture, their perspective is the complete opposite of ours. Therefore, the Bible says that the WORLD that will not discern the times, but that WE will not be ignorant (1 Thess 5:1-5).

  41. McClean says:

    Revelation 19:7 preceded by verse 1 places setting of these verses IN heaven… where the great multitude of voices are heard:

    And after these things I heard a great voice of much people IN heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: (Rev 19:1)

    Followed by verse 6: And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

    Verse 7 which you begin your comment follows telling us the marriage supper has COME, timing “present”… as in NOW… IN heaven, the expressed setting of the great multitude, including the wife or Bride having made herself ready.

    Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb IS COME, and his wife hath made herself ready.

    The Church Bride is present in heaven, returns WITH the Groom, following Him FROM heaven returning WITH Him to earth. This is not the timing of “meeting Him in the air”; they, the Bride are already there… having heard a voice as a trumpet call to come UP here. Where? In heaven… there, where He is… there we are also:

    And the armies which were IN heaven FOLLOWED him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (Rev 19:14)

    Timing is first Rapture, the taking away of the Bride… UP, meeting Him in the air, then… where He is (in heaven), then there we shall be also”: WITH Him at the Marriage of the Lamb; THEN returning… FOLLOWING Him, then to rule with Him as He returns (The Second Coming) and righteously judges the earth:

    Rev 19:14-15
    (14) And the armies which were IN heaven FOLLOWED him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    (15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Revelation 19 is crystal clear that the marriage is happening now in heaven.
      You showed this very clearly.
      I think that it is time to let this go.
      When clear teaching from the Bible is ignored or changed, there is no longer continuing.

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