Science: Genetic Armageddon

33 Responses

  1. Marcel says:

    The Lord will put a stop to this sooner than the mad scientists think.
    The 4 horses are out of the barn and with their riders they ride to their appointed destinations.
    Daniel was written for God's people in this last generation.

    Will we be strong and do exploits or will we rail in anger against Jesus because let us down by not returning when we assumed he should have returned ?

    'Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. 33 And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.
    If the people who really know their God are all raptured out than those who hold onto this fasle teaching have to make corrections with God's word in Daniel.
    'but the backslid who could not stand with the Holy Spirit helping them and missed the rapture shall become strong and carry out great exploits without the help of the Holy Spirit who has been take out,removed'.
    Daniel 11

    1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
    The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
    And there shall be a time of trouble,
    Such as never was since there was a nation,
    Even to that time.
    And at that time your people shall be delivered,
    Every one who is found written in the book.
    2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
    Some to everlasting life,
    Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
    3 Those who are wise shall shine
    Like the brightness of the firmament,
    And those who turn many to righteousness
    Like the stars forever and ever…………
    And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand. 11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days
    Daniel 12

    Don't you see that your arogance and pride trap you into this early rapture false teaching ?

    The proud,deceived,naive and deceived Christian's think that they do not need to be purified and made white and refined.

    Mr. Clean and proud John ,you are not as clean as you think you are.
    As we can see the condition of all of us here at this blog we have much wrinkle and spot to remove, that is except the clean pharisees who are ready for the rapture and do not need what God's word said we wil all need.
    (see highlighted verses)

    Those who cannot discern between boldness and anger have a long way to go in God's refining process. He will remove the pride that blinds you.

    John ,you might start by keeping your word to make your DVD (Sid Roth radio interview) avaliable here as you said you would some time ago.
    You don't even have the Christian decency to respond to this simple question I asked of you on this subject.
    That's pride,arrogance as you asume you are better.

  2. John McTernan's Background says:

    Marcel;
    What is wrong brother? You seem ready to strike out at people. You seemed to be wounded on the inside.

    What can I say about you calling me proud? It is horrible to call someone proud because God hates pride. God forbid that I should manifest pride.

    The DVD is now available. I have not been able to post it on the blog. Go to my website and the order section. You can place a direct order or send me a check. I will get it right out to you.

    I am looking for the glorious coming of the Lord Jesus for His church. It is called the blessed Hope.

    1 Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    (18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    I am made white and refined and purified by the blood of the Lord Jesus and by His word. John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

    If you want to look for the manifestation of the antichrist, that is up to you. I live with the blessed Hope.

  3. Bev says:

    Marcel its funny you point out the very point I was trying to make yesterday about the LUKEWARM('but the backslid who could not stand with the Holy Spirit helping them and missed the rapture shall become strong and carry out great exploits) . The Backsliders are the Lukewarm, amen. Yet when I brought this to your attention you could not grasp it.
    Why do you point fingers? I think you are the one with eyes closed!!
    Time for you to read what Christ holds dear most of all~~ (John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you)
    Be advised I will no longer be responding to your posts.

  4. Anonymous says:

    Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

    Please allow me to share a little personal info 🙂

    My childhood was filled with painful memories of men that claimed to be the " anointed of God" my dad playing the role oh so well as he lead a flock of "Jehovah's Witnesses" to believe that they were the "chosen few".

    I was repulsed at his arrogance, pride and oh I am above reproof attitude as he twisted and manipulated scriptures to justify his ways.

    He would pull the " I'm being persecuted playing card" when he was shown the danger of his hypocritical life ( loved his $$$$$$) yet lived a lie before others , till the Lord counted me worthy to stand on His word with this word of warning-

    2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you:

    Jer 6:13 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one [is] given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.

    For the past 16 yrs the Lord has called us to count all things as dung and to apply this in our lives-

    Mat 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

    Phl 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

    Not a easy word to hear but so needful as we enter into a time where we will have to trust in the Lord for providential protection, and provision.

    John I love you brother and need you to know that this is no personal attack on your pre trib stand, I apologize profusely as I thought you were a pre wrather, I was lead to this site by another believer with the same thought and need to go back to where we were led to that understanding.

    Many whom we meet globally were once pre tribbers, but for some wonderful reason many have changed their eschatology position over the last 3 yrs.( almost all at about the same time- mind boggling really!)

    Our main concern was WHY was the Lord preparing us for what we are NOW seeing come to pass JUST as He warned in 100% concise accuracy? But then rest and abide in knowing that He is in complete control, He has spoken in His word that HE sends the strong delusion as we come closer to His return, only because they loved NOT His word.

    The great falling away started yrs ago but was intensified when people like Rick Warren started his "fleecing of the flock "-so many are under his spell already that no matter how hard we try to show the danger of this man's agenda, it is rejected, the saddest part of it all is to see who is joining his agenda now, those that ONCE rebuked him!Praise the Lord that the second his book hit the shelves, the Holy Spirit warned us, sadly it has taken it's toll friendship wise 🙁 How precious is His anointing on our lives that He will warn His own of the coming danger.

    Jesus warned us of this "appointed time", let us not be ignorant of the devils devices.

    Let us be of the same mind in Christ Jesus amen?

    1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

    Phl 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, [being] of one accord, of one mind.

  5. John McTernan's Background says:

    Anonymous;
    I am pre-tribulation because I live with the blessed Hope. This seems to offend many people. I am not the least offended that people are not pre-trib. I'm delighted when people believe in the Lord's Second Coming even though they may differ on the timing of His coming.

    So many are offended if you believe in pre-trib. If people are looking for the antichrist and His system, I believe it hurts their faith by focusing on the devil and what he is doing rather than Christ and being with Him.

    If I am wrong when prophetic events unfold, then I will adjust, but I will never take my eyes off the Lord's Coming.

    I am looking forward to the Lord Jesus coming for His bride and then the marriage supper of the Lamb in heaven. Then according to Revelation 19, I return with the Lord Jesus at witness His destruction of the beast and his armies. I am with the Lord Jesus in heaven during the tribulation.

    God bless you and make sure you are living with the blessed Hope
    and not facing the anitchrist.

  6. Bev says:

    Are we all to be bickering about when our dear lord and savior is returning? No man knows the hour~~The Bible is very clear. Time is wasted bickering who is right when no man knows.
    We are in the sorrows as mentioned in the book of Matthew.
    (Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows).
    John pls keep teaching I and others are learning way to much for you to stop now because of some bitter people who care only about their own opinions over who is right and wrong.
    Lord Bless!!!

  7. Anonymous says:

    Thank-you for your response John, if I may, will you allow me to share another concern that is deeply disconcerting please.

    Thank-you for clarifying that you are pre-trib now and did not habitually ignore my question, it only affirms to me your reaction to my post the other day- luv ya enniiniways!!:)

    I say this in much humility & sincerity , as an apologetic and a defender of the faith that the Lord has blessed with a very fine spiritual gift of discernment( he always affirms in 100% accuracy)I am driven by the Holy Spirit to ask why MOST Pre tribbers are looking towards 2012 as SOME PIVOTAL YEAR then? does NOT the Lord warn us NOT to even look on the APPEARANCE of evil? why consult their calendar?

    There are countless ( pre trib) writers that are cashing in on this 2012 hype ( give your books away free please people if you are so concerned for the souls of men) and wanted to know what your thoughts are on the 2012 " supernatural discoveries" that are permeating every inch of our lives though mass media coverage?

    My concern is what is going to happen if very soon we see a devastating blow to the USA and many are not prepared for it -spiritually only because they are " waiting-looking" that this will come to pass in 2012?

    2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

    Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].

    Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

    1Cr 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

  8. Anonymous says:

    Bev sweetie please hear my heart, I REJECTED any teaching on the pre wrath and got so angry when I lead 2 familes to the Lord 3 yrs ago and they DARED to show me my" error" as they called it, as a " pre tribber".

    My pride was so hurt that a "babe in Christ" would DARE tell me anything, but the Lord used those( painful ) words to allow me to seek His face in fasting , prayer and supplication and the deeper I sought Him and allowed Him to teach me by His Holy Spirit and His word alone( not a left behind book) my life changed, it took me almost 2 yrs to work it through, that is why I am so driven to share with as many as possible what we are about to enter into-only because of the lateness of the hour.

    The Lord says we are the children of the LIGHT, ( that this day NOT overcome us ) that we will KNOW the season, that He will reveal these things unto His servants BEFORE they come to pass.

    Why would He exhort us- 1Th 5:6

    Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.

    Yes amen – But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    THE DAY== the day of the LORD's WRATH that He cuts SHORT,(that is why no man knows the time) lest NO FLESH survive.This is the time Daniel made reference to in Chapter 12 that they are blessed who come the -Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

    The is a period of how many days after AC stands up and proclaims to be" God" ? I humbly believe this is the time His wrath is poured out, woe unto the world for the Lamb FIRST time mentioned in Rev 6 – Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

    Bev please study the word's- the "day of the Lord" it was in this that the Lord taught me, scripture alone and Holy Spirit taught.

    It is NOT the trib, nor the rapture but the WRATH of God of which we are NOT appointed to sis.
    I intentionally did not post the verses so that the Lord can do His work.

    I have no agenda here to push my pre wrath view on anyone, the Lord is constantly convicting me NOT to remain silent here, or anywhere else where He chooses to send us.
    Love in Christ

  9. John McTernan's Background says:

    Bev, I'll delighted that you learn from the blog. It is a joy for me to do all the work.
    I have NO intention of stopping.
    God bless you.

  10. John McTernan's Background says:

    Anon;
    I really don't anyone saying much about 2012. I realize that there has been some writings about ancient prophecy that the world is going to end in 2012, but one that I know is even talking about it.

  11. Marcel says:

    Hi John ,
    Now I know what it takes to get an answer out of you.
    FINALLY !
    Thank you for stooping down so low to answer me brother.

    Strike out ? You mean like your Mr. Clean did ?
    Pride.
    What else can blind us to the truth of God's word which Jesus has been SHOUTING to the churchat this late hour ,
    Prepare ! not for rapture but for tribulation.

    It's pride or you are deaf ?

    Exposing lies and deception and correcting and rebuking at this late hour in the Church is now intolerable,offensive, called striking out,anger,rude,ect.ect.

    I would guess if you were at church when Peter gave his final message to Annias and Saphira you would ask; Where is the church age grace, love and forgivness and why so much anger and no mercy,and did you have to do it in front of the whole Church ?

    Listen carefully.
    Its not about being offended.
    It's not about bickering.
    It's about believing, teaching and leading other saints who are weaker in the faith into what is false,a lie.

    Soon enough you and I and everyone else will know the lie from the truth and the issue will be mute.
    Waht I am saying John is that it is better to humble yourself now instead of later.
    I don't take away from the great job you are doing I just love you enough to warn you beforehand because the SORROW will be greater after you awaken.

  12. Bev says:

    The Lord has led me to Acts 4 ~~If any man have an ear then let him hear, amen

  13. John McTernan's Background says:

    Marcel, Warn me of what? To stop looking for the blessed Hope! The Bible tells me to look for the Blessed Hope, the coming of the Lord Jesus for His church.

    Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

    The Bible tells me that the Lord Jesus is coming for those that are LOOKING for Him;

    Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

    I preach the Blessed Hope and to look unto Jesus which is exactly what the Bible says to do.
    You seem to focus on the devil and what he is doing. There is NO power in that.

    Come over to what God wants as there is great joy in waiting for the Lord Jesus and then the marriage supper of the Lamb.

    Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

    From my contact with you, it seems that you are living WITHOUT the Blessed Hope and the joy of waiting for the Lord Jesus to come for His church.

  14. Anonymous says:

    John you said :

    Anon;
    I really don't anyone saying much about 2012. I realize that there has been some writings about ancient prophecy that the world is going to end in 2012.

    Why do I still have major red flags in my spirit?

    I have a gazillion questions and have been seeking the Lord on a few things that are truly "buggin" me- I have a few other question's John.

    Do you agree with the – Lakeland revival?

    Why did Sid Roth endorse Todd Bentley on his show?

    Why would you be a partaker of that by being on his show?

    Just but what is being spoken here disturbs me !!!!! – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A75aVmcviOk

    Almost every one I talk to in the pre trib camp is looking towards this "ancient prophecy"

    2012, the Bible, and the End of the World (Paperback)
    by Mark Hitchcock

    2012 … The End Of The World?Jack Kelly

    Hal Lindsey- – 2012 Cometh!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku6-KJyO97I

    Please do not bury these quesitons in a ton of " articles" there needs to be a open honest evaluation of what is really the issue here.

    What are your thoughts on the Latter Rain movement and their " dominionist view? and what about the apostolic reformation? and Oral Roberts and CHUCK PIERCE and oh one more concern does the Word EVER state that in the end times there will be a GREAT END TIME revival? or does it say that there is going to be a GREAT falling away from the truth and FEW are on the straight and narrow, WILL JESUS FIND FAITH WHEN HE RETURNS ?I believe there is already a strong delusion that the Lord is bringing to pass to believe the lie!

    This is starting to scare me 🙁

    It is easier to silence those that dig, ask and seek for truth.

    Jesus said it would be so, wow what a time to be alive!

  15. Mr. Clean says:

    "Strike out ? You mean like your Mr. Clean did ? Pride. Don't you see … your arogance and pride"

    yada, yada, yada,… ad nauseum

    – Marcel

    "Strike out?"

    Who do you think you are Marcel… this is not your call. This is not baseball. You are not umpire; this is not a game.

    And you are NOT Judge.

    It is not your call nor is there any "calling" of the Lord to so abuse His servants; you have no license, especially among fellow believers as to who and how much one is clean. The One who shall so judge also cleanses and makes us clean.

    Judgment is the Lord's. It is His perogative and in His timing… NOT yours.

    Do not think you are some kind of repository of superior understanding and knowledge. You are not. Humble yourself! Lord rebuke you Marcel!

    Take that timber out of your own eye and do not abusively beat others, overlording them as some kind of self-appointed Nicolaitan.

    The Lord exhorts us to think more highly of others than we do ourselves. Do you?

    Where is modesty, humility, kindness or charity… where any evidence?

    Looking at all you've written, there is none; from such turn away.

    And I do. You are a dry well Marcel.

    Lord rebuke you.

    These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. (2Pe 2:17-18)

  16. Marcel says:

    'The Bible tells me that the Lord Jesus is coming for those that are LOOKING for Him;
    Amen John and that you do so well.
    Lets take just one chapter of the gospel where Jesus is speaking to us.
    Matt 24:13
    'but he that endures to the end shall be saved.
    He said end ,not early escape.
    I know you are smart enough to understand the meaning of 'end'.
    Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation……
    v22 .. .. …but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
    John,
    I know you understand who the elect are.
    v29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days….
    v31 and He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet,and they will gathertogether His elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
    Verse 31 is the event Paul was giving us more insight into here, but in the 1800's that all changed with the false dream,visiion of a little girl from Scotalnd.
    Sunddenly,magically,unbiblically a secret event Jesus nor the Apostles never told us about became Doctrine.The early escape of the special not yet refined ones.
    I Corinthians 15
    Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    Your error is that instead of hearing the word's of Jesus and believing them you have chosen to belive the lie,fable/dream of a little girl fromScotland.
    John ,Jesus word will stand. not Marys or scofields or Hal's or Kinsella's
    __________________
    As for no name who twists scripture like this to to arttack me.
    He's got to do better don't you think ?
    'For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live'
    He's calling scripture words of vanity,and where is the lust of the flesh ,wantoness ?

    I'm not selling anything,nor do I have a ministry with my name at the head proudly displayed.

    Not so clean has got to do a better job especially with his anemic 'the Lord rebuke you.'

    There is no power or authority in his words,he's just a Jack Kinsella clone.
    The Lord has blessed me greatly IN SPIT OF HIS CURSE.

  17. Clear thinking Kinsella (part 1) says:

    Rightly Dividing the Word: The MacDonald Doctrine

    "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." (1st Corinthians 10:11-12)

    One of the most maligned and least understood of all Christian doctrines is the study of the dispensations of God. There are huge segments of Christianity who believe it is a false doctrine. This, despite the clear teaching of the Scripture.

    First, let's clearly define what Dispensationalism means; "the act of dispensing or something dispensed; a specific arrangement or system by which something is dispensed."

    Moses dispensed the Law. The word 'dispensation' does not mean a period of time. It means the dispensing of a particular message or ministry. For example, the Church Age began at Pentecost and will end at the Rapture.

    ". . .Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (Acts 1:11)

    The Apostle Paul addressed the Church Age Dispensation no fewer that four times;

    "For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me." (1st Corinthians 9:17)

    "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him." (Ephesians 1:10)

    "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:" (Ephesians 3:2)

    "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the Word of God;" (Colossians 1:25)

    All of these are descriptive names for this present Dispensation. The Church Age is the Dispensation of the Gospel. It is the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times, the Dispensation of Grace and the Dispensation of God.

    We alluded briefly yesterday to those who claim that Dispensationalism and even the Rapture are relatively new doctrines 'invented' by John Darby after meeting with Margaret MacDonald.

    As they tell it, in 1830, she had a vision about the end of the world and when she came out from under her trance, she wrote it down.

    This account attracted the attention of Edward Irving and his church later claimed Margaret as one of their own prophetesses. Irving also had an interest in prophecy and held prophetic conferences. The historian of Irving's church claimed that Margaret was the first person to teach a two stage second coming of Christ.

    John Darby traveled to Scotland to visit the MacDonald home. Darby was a lawyer until a year after his conversion when he was ordained a deacon in the Church of England. Soon after entering the ministry he became disillusioned with the institutional church and started the Brethren movement in Plymouth, England.

    Darby became known as the 'father' of Dispensationalism, the first eschatology to incorporate the 'prophecy' of Margaret MacDonald.Darby continued to develop this new view by becoming the first to make a radical distinction between Israel and the Church.

    Darby taught that God has two special groups of people (or two Brides) and a separate plan for each of them. This meant Christ would have to return twice. Covenant theologians sneer that, "this secret rapture was so secret that no one had ever heard of it for 1800 years!"

    The Margaret MacDonald story has been told and retold so many times that most Covenant theologians can recite it in their sleep. There is something about Dispensationalism that makes them see red.

    It seems odd, really.

  18. Clear thinking Kinsella (part 2) says:

    .

    Rightly Dividing the Word: The MacDonald Doctrine (cont'd)

    Assessment:

    Most Dispensationalists couldn't care less whether or not a segment of the Church believes it will go through the Tribulation. I am among that group.

    If somebody trusts Christ for his salvation, but disagrees with the timing, (or even the doctrine) of a secret Rapture, they are still saved.

    But I've yet to discuss Dispensationalism with Covenant (or replacement) theologians without being called names like 'false teacher' and 'liar'.

    The Margaret MacDonald story is included in every missive, so that 'ignorant' can be included on the list. Why is there so much opposition to Dispensationsalism? Dispensationalism drives a stake through the heart of replacement theology.

    When the Emperor Constantine declared Christianity the state Church of Rome, he set into motion a codification process in which ultimately resulted in the Bible being restricted to members of the clergy. This period is known to history as the 'Dark Ages'.

    It wasn't until the Bible was made available to the common man that the Protestant Reformation began to take place in the 15th century.

    The Protestant Church was born out of the Roman Catholic Church. While it rejected Catholicism's teaching of salvation by works, it carried with it much of its doctrine, including that of replacement theology.

    For almost three hundred years, the Protestant Church continued to accept the Catholic doctrine of replacement theology without challenge. Until Dr. C. I. Schofield reviewed and advanced the teachings of the early Church, publishing his findings in the Schofield Reference Bible.

    The Scofield Reference Bible attempted to set in order the right divisions of God's purpose as Scofield understood it. And it is important to note that there is very little similarity between the writings of Scofield and the writings of Darby, despite being assigned joint credit for 'inventing' the doctrine by its critics.

  19. Clear thinking Kinsella (part 3 conclusion) says:

    As Christians, we are obligated to search the Scriptures and see if the Bible teaches different dispensations, and if it does, we are obligated to embrace its teaching. If it does not, we are bound to reject it.

    There are three things to keep in mind about dispensational teaching. First, it maintains a distinction between Israel and the Church, recognizing God has an eternal, unchanging, Plan for Israel and a different Plan for the Church during the Church Age.

    The second is that Dispensationalists hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible, instead of spiritualizing a text or making everything a 'type'.

    Thirdly, Dispensationalists believe God's purpose is much bigger than the salvation of mankind. God's purpose centers in His glory.

    The Bible is all about God's kingdom and His Son ruling over it. This is the part where the replacement theologians start turning red. Dispensationalists believe that there is a place for the Jew, the Gentile and the Church of God in this eternal purpose. Those saved in this age are in the church, the body of Christ.

    Replacement theology cuts the Jew out of God's Plan, blurs the line between Christian and Gentile, and assumes unto the Church the Promises of God to Israel.

    Therefore, according to the modern interpretation of replacement theology, modern-day Israel isn't really the Israel of the Bible. It has no special spiritual connection to the Land. This theological worldview is behind most mainstream Protestant churches sharing the Vatican's unwavering support for the Palestinian cause.

    Replacement theology is also the root cause of modern anti-Semitism. This is why those who hold to it get so nasty when attacking Dispensationalism. It is easier to hate Israel if you think that God hates it, too.

    But you have to already be predisposed to hating Jews, or it doesn't make sense.

    Archives of past issues of The Omega Letter Intelligence Digest plus many other Omega Letter member features can be found at:
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    The Omega Letter is published daily by Jack Kinsella and exists through subscriptions and free will contributions. © http://www.omegaletter.com

  20. Rapture Discussion says:

    "The dispensational Semetary teaching is something you need to flush dow the garbage disposal."
    – Marcel

    Before pulling the lever to 'flush dispensational teaching … down the garbage disposal" as has been suggested, in interest of all and answer to the call: "… to give an answer to every man that asks for a reason of the hope [Blessed Hope] that lies within us" (1 Pet 3:15), let's prayerfully to do so: with meekness, reverence and respect befitting the Lord we follow and look for… now more than ever before.

    Clarity from Kinsella (part 1) follows.

    On the Testimony of Three Witnesses. . .

    There are at least five distinct views within the Church concerning when (or whether) the Lord will return for His Church in an event commonly called "The Rapture."

    The proponents for each view are all sincere, believing Christians who believe their interpretation is right to the exclusion of all others.

    I understand and appreciate that more than a few of the members of our fellowship hold to different understandings of the Rapture and I respect their scholarship.

    However, we know that things that are different cannot be the same. No matter how kindly or charitably one tries to frame it, while all are sincere, at least four of these views are sincerely wrong.

    How can this be? Is not the same Holy Spirit guiding us all? How can there possibly be so many different understandings of the same doctrine?

    If there are five different views of the Rapture, does that suggest the doctrine itself is weak?

    In brief, the five views of the Rapture are as follows:

    1. Pre-Tribulational: The Rapture of the Church takes place before the start of the Tribulation Period, defined as two consecutive periods of 1280 days each. (Daniel 7:25, 9:2712:7 Revelation 11:2, 11:3 12:6, 12:14, 13:5)

    It begins with the revelation of the antichrist as the guarantor of Israel's security with the confirmation of a seven year peace agreement.

    The dividing point between the first and second parts of the Tribulation is the cessation of Temple sacrifices (Daniel 9:27)

    2. Mid-Tribulational: This view sees the Church being Raptured at the half-way point when the Temple sacrifices are suspended by the antichrist, but before the Great Tribulation of the 2nd half.

    3. Pre-Wrath: This also puts the Church through the first half of the Tribulation, but the dividing point is not the Temple sacrifices, but the judgments, specifically, the Sixth Seal judgment, the "Blood Moon."

    4. Post-Tribulational: This view sees the Church put through the entire Tribulation, with the survivors being Raptured at the Second Coming.

    5: There is no Rapture. This is the default view of amillennialism and post-millennialism and probably the majority view of world-wide Christendom today.

    Only one view can be correct. So why five? Different methods of interpretation of prophecy affect the conclusions that are drawn from prophetic passages. If one reads a passage of prophecy and interprets it literally, one comes away with a different conclusion than if one reads the same passage symbolically.

    There are places in Scripture where something is intended to be understood symbolically and places where it is intended to be literal. Context and usage generally make the intent obvious, but the best rule of interpretation remains the old adage, 'when the clear sense makes sense, seek no other sense.'

    But it should be obvious that those who draw their conclusions based on a symbolic understanding of Scripture arrive at different conclusions than those who view Scripture from a literal point of view.

    "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him:" (Ephesians 1:10)

  21. Rapture Discussion says:

    On the Testimony of Three Witnesses. . . (part two)

    What is the 'dispensation of the fullness of times?' Literally, the phrase means the final dispensation, or the Millennial Kingdom.

    "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:" (Ephesians 3:2)

    What is the dispensation of the grace of God? Literally, that is the Church Age.

    "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God." (Colossians 1:25)

    It seems clear to me that when interpreted literally and with a clear understanding of the Dispensations of God, one arrives at the conclusion that the Rapture of the Church must take place before any part of the Tribulation begins.

    There is a clear Dispensational division between the Church Age and the Time of Jacob's Trouble, or the 70th Week of Daniel. The Church Age MUST end so that God can pour out His grace upon the whole House of Israel.

    "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." (Romans 11:25)

    When Scripture references "a mystery" it refers to something not previously revealed by God now being revealed to the Church. The first to use this word was Christ Himself in Mark 4:11:

    "And He said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables."

    The Dispensation of the Age of Grace is acknowledged even by those who argue against Dispensationalism. It must be acknowledged, since it cannot be ignored.

    Without Dispensationalism, there can be no reconciliation between the Old and New Testaments. The problem with that is that, without the harmony of the Scriptures, it would mean the same God didn't inspire them both.

    Is it, "an eye for an eye"? Or is it "turn the other cheek?" Does God demand blood sacrifices in payment for sin? Or has the blood sacrifice demand been satisfied?

    It depends on whether one is under the Dispensation of the Law, or the Dispensation of the Age of Grace, does it not?

    If one is under the Dispensation of Grace, it follows that, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Romans 3:28)

    But the Prophet Daniel says that during the Tribulation Period, the Law will be in effect. The Temple will be restored — as will the Temple system of animal sacrifices. Is that literal? Or symbolic?

    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease . . .

    An 'oblation' means 'a thing presented or offered to God." If the 'covenant' is literal, and the 'week' is a literal shabua (week of years) then it follows that both the sacrifice and the oblation are just as literal.

    In 1st Corinthians 3:16,17, and 6:16, Paul points out that during the Church Age, believers are the Temple of God.

    "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

    "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

    "And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

    The Apostle Paul writes of the restored Temple (the only place where Daniel's prophecy of sacrifice and oblation can be valid) and the antichrist's desecration of it thusly:

    "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." (2nd Thessalonians 2:4)

    Notice that Paul refers to it as the "Temple of God." Is Paul speaking of all Church Age believers in which the antichrist takes a seat? Or a literal Temple of God? [see part 3 for answers]

  22. Rapture Discussion says:

    On the Testimony of Three Witnesses. . . (part 3 – conclusion)

    Let's ask Jesus.

    "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:" (Mark 13:14)

    The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet is when the antichrist defiles the Temple, causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease. It is the same abomination of desolation that Paul is referring to in 2nd Thessalonians 2:4 — when the antichrist desecrates the Temple by sitting down in it proclaiming himself to be God.

    Daniel says the Third Temple is legitimate in the eyes of God. And it is desecrated halfway through the Tribulation Period. It cannot be desecrated unless it is holy and it is God who calls it an abomination.

    Jesus Christ says the abomination spoken of by Daniel takes place in "the holy place" and says when that happens, it is time to flee Judea for the mountains.

    Paul says that this desecration is perpetrated by the antichrist and it takes place "in the Temple of God."

    So, on the testimony of three witnesses; Daniel, Jesus Christ of Nazareth and the Apostle Paul, during the Tribulation to come, the antichrist desecrates the Temple of God.

    And, on the testimony of the Scripture, we are told three times that during the Church Age, WE are the Temple of God.

    Things that are different are not the same. We find that the Temple of God, during the Church Age, is NOT a building, but the Temple of God, during the Tribulation, IS the literal Temple building.

    Daniel said so. Paul said so. JESUS SAID SO.

    If Daniel, Jesus and Paul say the Tribulation's Temple of God is a building and a legitimate holy place that is capable of being desecrated, then what happened to the Church Age Temple[s] that the SAME Apostle Paul defines as Church Age believers?

    The Scripture offers only one explanation that answers those questions without contradicting itself elsewhere.

    "For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

    The Rapture of the Church is one of the most divisive doctrines within the Church today. And, as I've said many times, NOBODY is saved by their understanding of the timing of the Rapture.

    So why do I keep hammering away at it? Because the Scriptures exhort me to.

    We live in the most terrifying time of uncertainty in human history — the wrong move by the wrong guy could set off a chain of events that could potentially exterminate the human race. We have but a short time to spread the message of salvation, and it doesn't help if we are paralyzed by fear.

    The Lord knew the conditions that would exist just before His return. Which is why Paul ends his explanation of the Rapture with this exhortation:

    "Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1st Thessalonians 4:16-18)

    Maranatha!
    Archives of past issues of The Omega Letter Intelligence Digest plus many other Omega Letter member features can be found at: http://www.omegaletter.com

    The Omega Letter is published daily by Jack Kinsella and exists through subscriptions and free will contributions. © http://www.omegaletter.com

  23. John McTernan's Background says:

    Anon, My work stands alone and speaks for itself. The rest of what you are saying is nonsense.

    If you have a problem with me, I suggest that you stop following the blog and ignore me.

    If I see anymore personal attacks on my integrity, YOU will be blocked.

    I think you should spend more time in the Bible with the LORD then watching whatever is on TV.

  24. Anonymous says:

    John where have I " attacked" you?

    We are exhorted in the word to TEST the spirits, I asked a few humble questions and your reaction only causes me to dig further.

    As an apologetic and a contender of the faith I have NOT watched TV or had ANY ONE single secular book including " Christian" so called books in my home for over 16 yrs and study the word extensively, you are the one that attacked me rather by falsely assuming /accusing me that I don't read the bible and lie around watchin TV, how sad.
    I will leave , my work is done here, but of this I am assured, the Lord is going to send others into your life ( personally )to ask the same difficult quesitons, of that I am convinced, then you will recall my concerns and be reminded of your justification, let me say that you totally IGNORED my quesitons and BRUSHED them off with "I WILL BLOCK YOU " with a control and manipulation tactic,if I am in error concerning the quesitons I have, May the Lord rebuke me if I am in error and will apologize openly to you if He convicts me.
    I bend this knee to only ONE God.
    I am more than ever convinced that this is all part of the strong delusion already and that we are in the season just prior to when the USA is about to be judged for her idolatry and worship of false god's.( a devastating blow that is going to test many's faith sadly many will not be able to stand )
    The word has a clear understanding that men are called to openly rebuke, why block those that ask difficult questions?
    May the Lord have His way here, my work is done here.

    Please see next post with scriptures.

  25. Anonymous says:

    My last post.

    Numbers 6—Dathan, Abiram, &Korah were publicly rebuked by Moses and swallowed by the earth in judgement of God (verses 31-32)
    1 Kings 22:11, 24-25—False prophet, Zedekiah, was rebuked and judged by Micaiah
    Jeremiah 28:15-17—The false prophet Hananiah dies after rebuke by the LORD through Jeremiah
    Jeremiah 29:31-32—false prophet, Shemiah, dies after LORD’s rebuke through Jeremiah
    Much of the book of Jeremiah is spent rebuking the false prophets that have seduced Israel from following the LORD, and have led the people into idol worship.
    Ezekiel 8:8-11—false elders of Israel exposed by God, including Jaazaniah, the son of Shaphan
    Ezekiel 11:1-13—False brethren exposed and one of them, Pelatiah, dies
    In addition to these, much of Ezekiel’s time is spent prophesying against:
    False brethren (Chapter 11:4)
    False prophets (Chapter 13:16-17)
    False shepherds (Chapter 34)
    Much of the book of Isaiah is devoted to the rebuke of the LORD against the false prophets who are leading Israel astray from the true God to idols. Isaiah 9:15, 28:7
    There are many more instances, but the pattern is plain—God exposes men publicly who defy Him, preach, teach, or prophesy out of their own hearts, and try to lead His people astray.
    New Testament
    Matthew 23—Jesus publicly rebukes the Pharisees for their hypocrisy and man-made worship of God, and the twisting of the Scriptures
    1 Timothy 1:19-20—Hymaneus and Alexander delivered to Satan because of blasphemy by Paul the apostle
    2 Timothy 4:14— Paul warns Timothy to beware of Alexander the Coppersmith, who greatly opposed the gospel
    Galatians 2:11-13—Though certainly not false brethren, Peter was rebuked by Paul, for, along with Barnabas, Peter was guilty of public hypocrisy—Paul publicly corrected him
    3 John 9-10—Diotrophes opposing John and controlling Church members—John said, “I will remember him”.
    Revelation 2:20—Jezebel—false prophetess in Thyatira congregation—everyone knew who she was, as she was active in the Church .There are many other Scriptures that, while they do not name individuals, the individuals guilty of teaching false doctrine or living in blatant sin were well known among each congregation. In these cases, the Church in a particular area was named, and everyone knew who was being pointed out in Paul’s letters.
    1 Corinthians 4:18 and all of chapter 5—many puffed up (prideful) in spite of open sinning by congregation member—they are told to get that man out of the church—Paul delivers the man to Satan
    2 Corinthians 10:8-11, Chapter 11:1-4, 12-15, 20-23—false apostles exposed as bringing another “Jesus” into the congregation
    Revelation 2:14—Pergamos—some hold to the teachings of Baalam, and, verse 15, some who hold to the teachings of the Nicolatians, which Jesus said He hates
    Romans 16:17—Church there told to take note of those causing divisions contrary to the doctrine of Christ and avoid them
    Galatians 1:8—false brethren bringing circumcision into the Galatian church—presenting another “Jesus”—Paul said, “Let him be accursed!”
    Titus 1:9-16—Timothy told to rebuke false teachers—they must be stopped because they are doing great damage to the body of Christ there
    1 Timothy 1:3-4—Timothy told to command those teaching wrong doctrine to stop it
    1 Timothy 5:19-20—Rebuke in public those who continue to sin

  26. Marcel says:

    Anon,
    'let me say that you totally IGNORED my quesitons and BRUSHED them off with "I WILL BLOCK YOU " with a control and manipulation tactic'

    I see a pattern her as I've gotten the same treatment from the Clergy and his hitman ,Mr Clean.

    Rome never did like it when the laity got uppity and questioned their theology.
    They brought the hammer down on the little folks who dared question them.

    MATTHEW 24 ONE AND ONLY ONE RAPTURE AT VERSE 31 AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF VERSE 21

    So simple a child can understand it.

    What the decieved who follow men do is pile up man's theology and their dispensational garbage with long winded dissertations to confuse and divert away from the simplicity of Jesus' words.

    The blind and deceived disciple of Kinsella instead of Christ have been warned.
    I'm praying for you and your hit man John.

  27. Mr. Clean says:

    The "elect" are believers in Christ: "root" AND "branch"; Israel the root, the Church being the "branch". Lord told His disciples to pray that they might be worthy to escape the time of Great Tribulation (Lk 21:36).

    The church age ends with the removal of the Holy Spirit resident in believers at the time of His trumpet call: to "come up here"; that where He is there shall we be also.

    Many believers will be saved "as by fire"… that of the Period of Jacob's trouble, the time of great tribulation. The angel calls all to repent and the 144,000 give witness to all upon earth as the Church, now removed, did previously.

    Rev 7:1-3 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (2) And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, (3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

    These "sealed servants" are also believers, part of "the elect".

    Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

    Mat 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: [the Second Coming]

    and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    In the end, in the consummation of time ALL believers ["the elect"]… root AND branch shall be gathered together in Christ as His 1000 year reign begins. All Israel will be saved… both branch (first fruits) and root; all are "spiritual Israel", "the elect"… all believers in Christ as their saving Messiah.

    Rev 22:16-17 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. (17) And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

    The Apostle Paul called this "the Blessed Hope" (Tit 2:13). Amen!

    Come Lord Jesus!

    Mr. Clean (Mal 3:16-18)

    Mal 3:16-18 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

    (17) And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

    (18) Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

  28. Robo says:

    Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

  29. Robo says:

    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

  30. Robo says:

    Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    Will those without the mark be allowed to even work for naything? Food or even money?
    In Matthew 24 above The verses show people at work for food or money amen? One is taken. This has to be Before the mark of the antiChrist enters into the picture.Otherwise this person of God would not be allowed to be working.AMEN?

  31. Marcel says:

    God's word explains itself.
    I don't have to insert something that is not there or twist the meaning of a word.
    The elect are God's children and there is no seperation or difference between Jew and Gentile.
    We are one in Christ so your attempt to divide it to Israel alone fails.
    ___________________

    In Matthew 24 above The verses show people at work for food or money amen? One is taken. This has to be Before the mark of the antiChrist enters into the picture.Otherwise this person of God would not be allowed to be working.AMEN?

    Taken where ?

    22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, ‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
    31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”[f]
    37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
    So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

    When I was taught by the false teachers I believed that the taken were raptured.
    Then I studied and read and studied and asked the Lord to TEACH me His word.

    Where Lord ?
    Where the DEAD carcass' are there will the eagles be gathered.
    Do a consise study of the word and you will learn that God is taking the wicked out.

    Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

    The early rapture folk are trying to save their lives.
    They just can't accept what the bible teaches so they twist the scripture to manafacture delusion and lies.

    It is dangerous to follow teachers and not Jesus alone !
    Sometimes their teachings are from their heart and mind and not the Lord.

  32. Marcel says:

    John,
    Verse 22 is for you.
    Jesus is letting you know ahead of time that He wil be late.

    Patience brother,He's coming on His time,not ours.

    22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

  33. Robo says:

    1 Thessalonians 5:1-10 (King James Version)

    1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

    2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

    4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

    5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

    6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

    7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

    8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

    9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.