WARNING: Mockers in the Last Days

105 Responses

  1. Denise says:

    Oh Brother John, you are so right on. I frequently listen to talk radio in the car and have been so distressed at the mocking of late! Specifically, I’ve heard several local and national hosts laugh at the comment that Al Sharpton made re the recent severe weather and flooding in Texas possibly being a message or judgment from the Lord. It is unfortunate that he was the one who made the comment, but that doesn’t make it any less true! And there has been such laughter and mocking…you’re right. It is too late for America. Thank you for being so faithful to proclaim the truth and the faith once delivered to the saints. Come, Lord Jesus!

  2. Gary Canant says:

    Well done Brother John!
    “In the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established”
    For me the first witness was Diane Reedy, in case ya forgot, see below link!

    https://youtu.be/7ro8bQ6Rx-Q

  3. This is such powerful, insightful writing. I bookmarked it and sent it out. People need to see this.

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Thanks and I am delighted that it blessed you.
      We must be prepared for the onslaught of the mockers.
      It is coming.

  4. Dan.w says:

    The fact we are still here shows God’s mercy in the midst of ever increasing judgments.We have a tough sled ahead of us.Praise God we have ministries such as this one to tell us truth…….something seemingly less welcome in a world gone mad.I was in a transit building the other day in the inner city,helping an old friend get a senior bus pass.One employee commented on the ‘beautiful red sun’ seen in our northern skies recently.It’s the upper level smoke from Canadian wildfires.I piped up in front of perhaps 10 or so people waiting and said,’I believe God is warning us,this world is upside down’,and I talked about eternal life being the only thing really free,and I was ready for Jesus,my only hope to come for me,I seen enough……Yep,subtle as a brick,that’s me……Where ever I go,I try to get Jesus back on the lips of people.God bless you all,……me.

  5. John Tobin says:

    John,

    Keep up the work of the Lord by proclaiming His Truth. Love rejoices in the truth. Jesus told us as lawlessness increased the love of many would grow cold. Tony Campolo and other so called ministers do not really love people or homosexuals because their not willing to tell them the truth. You love people because you speak the truth. I am so thankfull for you. God bless.

  6. Mark Gabrielson says:

    Psalms 35

    A Psalm of David.

    1 Plead my cause, O LORD, with them that strive with me: fight against them that fight against me.
    2 Take hold of shield and buckler, and stand up for mine help.
    3 Draw out also the spear, and stop the way against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I am thy salvation.
    4 Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt.
    5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them.
    6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.
    7 For without cause have they hid for me their net in a pit, which without cause they have digged for my soul.
    8 Let destruction come upon him at unawares; and let his net that he hath hid catch himself: into that very destruction let him fall.
    9 And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice in his salvation.
    10 All my bones shall say, LORD, who is like unto thee, which deliverest the poor from him that is too strong for him, yea, the poor and the needy from him that spoileth him?
    11 False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge things that I knew not.
    12 They rewarded me evil for good to the spoiling of my soul.
    13 But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom.
    14 I behaved myself as though he had been my friend or brother: I bowed down heavily, as one that mourneth for his mother.
    15 But in mine adversity they rejoiced, and gathered themselves together: yea, the abjects gathered themselves together against me, and I knew it not; they did tear me, and ceased not:
    16 With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth.
    17 Lord, how long wilt thou look on? rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions.
    18 I will give thee thanks in the great congregation: I will praise thee among much people.
    19 Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.
    20 For they speak not peace: but they devise deceitful matters against them that are quiet in the land.
    21 Yea, they opened their mouth wide against me, and said, Aha, aha, our eye hath seen it.
    22 This thou hast seen, O LORD: keep not silence: O Lord, be not far from me.
    23 Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, even unto my cause, my God and my Lord.
    24 Judge me, O LORD my God, according to thy righteousness; and let them not rejoice over me.
    25 Let them not say in their hearts, Ah, so would we have it: let them not say, We have swallowed him up.
    26 Let them be ashamed and brought to confusion together that rejoice at mine hurt: let them be clothed with shame and dishonour that magnify themselves against me.
    27 Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.
    28 And my tongue shall speak of thy righteousness and of thy praise all the day long.
    KJV

  7. Kisaame David says:

    Mockery is a disease and only God can heal it . He brings Judgement to mockers and the Bible is true that God does not stand mockers . His Word stand true and firm. Mockers should expect the wrath of God upon their heads unless they repent.
    John , this is a wonderful teaching , a warning to Mockers . Be blessed

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Everyone, This is Pastor David from Uganda and he is part of Abba Father’s Fellowship.
      Please say hello to him.

  8. Joni says:

    Mockers…can do so much damage.
    REAL damage too.
    To our hearts, our health, and even try to steal our Blessed Hope.
    If I did not do what my family asked of me, (money, time, labor, etc) I was mocked, because I was not like them. I was not strung out on anti-depressants, I would cry and panic if I was prescribed them, and they would mock, and ridicule, and try to get me to take them to be like them. I would almost collapse from fear of the mis prescribed drug, and unable to swallow it, and they would be calling it “drama”. I would learn the Bible, and try to share, and I was mocked and called names behind my back by sisters and husband. They were all in the club of mockers and scoffers, and my father, he warned me, before he died. He didn’t have the “words” (mockers scoffers) but he said “Watch out, they are vultures, they will come after you” “here, please take my favorite things, or else they will take them from you, take them now” He knew, he said “We are different than them” He was so right. I have the name now. The name my Dad meant to use, but his former Catholic background did not teach him the words, and I was raised liberal Seattleite, and I did not have the words.
    WHAT A RELIEF. Finally. The TRUTH.
    In this Ministry.
    About the pills, the broken hearts, the Docs, the food, the drugs, the mockers, the scoffers, the Narcisists, the poison “versions” of the Bible, and all that you teach us John.
    Its nice to have the right words, and you pull no punches, and leave no stone unturned. We know the truth, and we are set free by it.
    Praise you Lord. Thank you Jesus.
    Joni

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Thanks for the touching email.
      We now know what mockers are, where their power comes from and how to deal with them.
      We also know that mocking is the LAST sign before judgment.

  9. Ken Richmond says:

    Thank you John for your insight and wisdom, may the Lord continue to Bless you and strengthen you in your ministry. I look forward to your posts as they minister deeply to me, your ministry is a huge light in this dark world.
    The final Word will be God’s – Amen.

  10. Michael Asbury says:

    What’s to mock? It’s now like you have given any evidence for god being real. Right?

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Do you want to discuss the reality of God?
      I am willing if you because I can give you proof that you can touch.

  11. seeksurf says:

    Lol, thank the god’s!

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      I perceive that you are a mocker and are fulfilling prophecy.
      The rebirth of Israel as a nation with Jerusalem as its capital is all the proof you need to authority of the Bible as the word of God.
      Israel exists because of the everlasting covenant God made with Abraham and all the Jews.
      What lies next for you is the antichrist and Armageddon.
      Then if you survive all this, you have to face the Second Coming of Jesus Christ in all His glory.
      You can’t escape what is coming no matter how hard you mock.

      You now have the chance to repent of sin that consumes you and to confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
      Your sin will be forgiven and you will have eternal life with God
      Now is the time and may be your last time.

  12. Denise in MI says:

    John, that was an excellent essay. Scoffers don’t realize that you preach from love. They know they are wrong, so they rebel all the more. The spirit of pride tells them they know better than God and His people. They think they are the enlightened ones, but they are in the darkness.

    I thought of the verse Matt. 7:6:

    Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

    Hi, Other Denise. 🙂 It’s good to hear from you, sister.

  13. Denise in MI says:

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Gay-Pride-Parade-in-Tel-Aviv-to-draw-180000-405847

    They invited the poster-child for transgenderism, Bruce Jenner. (I can’t call “him” Caitlyn.)

  14. Denise says:

    Hello Pastor David!! We LOVE you in the Lord!! I read the text of the prayer of national repentance that your president offered a few years ago and was blessed to the point of tears! It was like an Old Testament prophet standing in the gap for his people. I have prayed for your nation often ever since, and now I’ll be praying for you by name. Until we meet together in the air…may the Lord richly bless you and the work of your hands.

  15. Denise says:

    Hello First Denise! 🙂 I felt an instant connection from the moment I saw your name on Brother John’s site a couple of weeks ago…even if you are from “the state up north.” I’m Buckeye born and bred, as in Columbus. But we can still love each other in the Lord! 🙂 Have a blessed Friday!

  16. Ryan Thomas says:

    Hi everyone, a fellow once heard me witnessing to some others. His way of mocking was to tell me I was the same as everyone else. I replied back,” that’s good news, then everyone has repented of being a sinner, has faith in what Jesus did at the cross, and has asked Him to be their Lord. But I still like talking about God and His ways, don’t you?”
    Hello Pastor David, Math 12:46-50
    Love to all the saints.

  17. Dave says:

    So when you say “study” in reference to the bible, it appears that you’re really just reading the book and looking to confirm your own bias. You start with a pseudepigraphical work (2 Peter, which is what actual biblical scholarship considers it) and continue using other passages to back up your view.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Epistle_of_Peter (yes I know wikipedia isn’t the end all authority, however you’re welcome to pull the journals in modern scholarship to see their consensus as well)

    I would love to see your justification as you indicated above, for “proof of god”, however seeing as you don’t seem to follow the evidence for the bible, I highly doubt what you might consider to be “evidence”, will be compelling. But I’ll suspend judgement until I see your response.

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      I start with the total rejection of what you said about 2 Peter. Most of the modern scholars are really nothing more than mockers in disguise.
      The attack on the Bible started about 200 years ago in Germany and continues until today.
      Now regarding the proof that is real easy to prove. I will go into Bible detail only if you want to continue.

      God made an everlasting covenant with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants over the land of Israel.
      God then gave the Law of Moses, which warned the Jews not to violate it or they would be driven off the land.
      Moses and the prophets warned of the dispersion, but also told of the regathering of the Jews back into the land based on the everlasting covenant.
      The were twice dispersed from the land. The first in 600 BC and the second 70 AD.
      After 1900 years they are back in the land with Jerusalem as their capital just as the prophets said would happen.
      The Jews speak Hebrew which was resurrected from being a dead language.
      There is NO other nation like Israel and no other city like Jerusalem.
      The nations are upset over Israel and Jerusalem which again is right out of the Bible.
      What is next are the wars the Bible states are coming followed by Armageddon.
      Then the awesome Second Coming of Jesus in His full glory. He is coming to the Jews in a restored Jerusalem.

      So all you need to do is get on a plane and fly to Israel.
      You can hear the Jews speak Hebrew.
      Then go to Jerusalem and touch anything you want and there is your proof.
      There are entire chapters from the Bible to support what I just wrote.
      The rebirth of Israel with Jerusalem as its capital is really all the proof you need.

      Jeremiah 31:8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
      Jer 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
      Jer 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

  18. MrClean says:

    Michael Asbury. . . here, the evidence:

    The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

    There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
    (Psa 19:1-3)

  19. MrClean says:

    Pro_14:9 Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour.

    Pro_14:16 A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
    Luk 6:25 … Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

    Pro_1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

    Psa_92:6 A brutish man knoweth not; neither doth a fool understand this.

  20. Dave says:

    John, I’m sorry, but your reasoning is circular and many of those biblical scholars are believers themselves. You can’t use the Bible to justify the validity of the bible… Having been born and raised in church, gone to private school, if what the bible claims is true, the more I research and do actual studies on the book, the more I should be closer to Yahweh/Jesus. The unfortunate point for you is that the exact opposite happened here.

    Look, I used to regard the bible as the inerrant word of god, subscribed to a young earth because “evolution was from the devil” and in direct opposition of what I was taught that the bible preached. Finding out the workings of the world and how we get to where we’re at today (science, medicine, cosmology, geology, etc.) these MUST, in your view, make me a stronger believer. Why then do I find myself in a position of atheism? This was going through a process of what you would consider, “seeking Him”. Why then didn’t I find him? Now if you’ll be honest and not take the straw man approach and tell me where I’m coming from or that I ” didn’t try hard enough “, the conversation can continue. However if you resort to biblical teaching and continue to use the mantra of ” I really must know god exists, I just reject him “, than your position has suddenly become dishonest or you’ll need to claim to have psychic powers wherein you can know my perspective better than myself. In that case, I’d like to introduce you to the James Randi foundation and wish you good luck on winning $1 million.

    Lastly, archaeology doesn’t support the history of the bible as you can read prominent archaeologist Israel Finkelstein’s book, the bible unearthed, to see the many cases where we should have evidence if the events in the bible actually transpired. The problem is, we do not.

    This is what has become so frustrating to me. If one wishes to solely base their belief on faith, then go for it. I don’t understand it, but at least I can respect it. But to continue denying evidence after evidence and science comes off, to me, as completely dishonest.

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Dave,
      Using the Bible to prove the Bible is NOT circular reasoning.
      The Bible is a collection of 69 books and letters written over 1500 years by many authors.
      Some of the authors were priests, kings, prophets, sheep herders, scholars and unknown background.
      It is anything but circular reasoning.

      Now we are back to where we started with. The proof is the rebirth of Israel with Jerusalem as its capital.
      That is all the proof you need, as you can walk on it and touch it.
      It also appears that you gravitate to unbelieving “scholars” to justify your bias and unbelief. They help reinforce the unbelief in your mind.
      You were weak in your faith, and most likely lived off your parents faith.
      You were tested in college and hand no foundation and that is why you are now an atheist.
      Now we are back to Jerusalem and you have no excuse for not believing.
      Remember, the antichrist and Armageddon are on the way not to mention the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

  21. Joni says:

    Proof of God…..Wow. Look around. Eyeballs. Zebras. Sunsets. Tides.
    Birds singing. Laughter. Flowers. Seashells. Brains. Hearts. Conscience. Seeds. Life. Birth. Dogs. Love. Ants labor. Bees pollenating.Each seed bearing fruit after it’s own kind.
    Over and over and over and over, from the first original person, plant or animal that began the process.
    It sure takes little to try to pass it off as an accident, tho it takes more faith to think that then to see the Creator in all the beautiful things He made.
    For US by the way.
    Even the ungrateful ones.
    Theres a good bit of proof in that alone.
    If evolution were true, we would be getting better, not in a downhill spiral of decay and destruction at our own hands……
    God Bless you, just ask, and He will, after you realize what a huge mistake you are making trusting your own foolish thoughts. Prideful thoughts.
    Do you think all you are, have done, and what you own is by your own hand????
    He has allowed it.
    That can change in an instant tho.
    No such thing as bad luck…no coincidence, no karma.
    Man made words to describe God’s actions.
    Just as Science is the word used to describe God’s handiwork.
    Man made words.

    Just read the book…..it’s right on.
    God Bless us all, Thank you John.
    Jon

  22. Joni says:

    Oops, Joni….didnt mean to confuse, sorry.

  23. MrClean says:

    Pro 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
    Pro 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

    Here the evidence… to all having open eyes, ears and heart… hungering, thirsting for truth:

    The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. (Psa 19:1-3)

    Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? … He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. (Psa 2:1,4)

    From the beginning, no respecter of persons, He set forth Life and death, exhorting to choose Life.

    He IS the Way (the great I AM); the Truth and the Life… `the word made flesh’. In love He died for all. Laugh (?) … LOL !!!?

    Yet He lives, will not be mocked: He has last laugh.

    Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

    Isa 45:12-13 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. (13) I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

    The Lord came to heal the broken hearted and set the captives free.

  24. Denise in MI says:

    Dear Dave, Michael, and seeksurf,

    Nonbelievers will believe in climate change, evolution, and the Big Bang–all theories–with so much conviction but won’t give God any credit. You make me concerned enough to butt in. Take this only as caring about you, period. I am just one of the millions of sinners He has saved, and I only want the same for you.

    You can believe in your atheism or agnosticism as much as I do in my Savior, but only one viewpoint will be right in the end. Are you willing to take that chance? Will you put your eternal soul in the hands of men? Maybe you think we have no eternity, that we just cease to be. The bible that you don’t believe in shows us otherwise. What if you’re wrong? I’m only asking that you consider it: eternity.

    You put so much energy into arguing against God; have you ever taken the time to search for Him? Right now, in not believing, what do you have to lose? If you sincerely seek Him, you will find Him. He thinks you’re worth saving and “stands at the door knocking,” but you have to ask Him in. He won’t go where He’s not wanted. No one can make you open it. We can plead our case, pray for you, beg you even, but we can’t make you. In fact, in eternity, we’ll forget you…

    Search your heart: are you looking for a reason to believe or a reason to be offended? Do you take pleasure, like the Pharisees, in trying to discredit believers but expect tolerance for your viewpoint? That comes from Satan, even if you don’t believe in him either.

    I wonder if your smug attitude comes from some deep-rooted anger or hurt. I am truly sorry if someone in the church hurt you. Even the most well-meaning people can hurt us, but God can only love us. He could have been done with us centuries ago, but He’s waited for people to get how much He loves us. Good thing, too. More Jews and Muslims have come to Christ in the past 15 years than they have in the last 2000 and 1400 years, respectively. (Why? Why now?) Many have had dreams and woke up accepting Jesus. Just last week a Muslim, who was about to kill a Christian, accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. Prophecy is happening in our time.We will see more miracles of people coming to Christ as these days speed up to the end. I pray that each of you are one of them. In the end, “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.”

  25. Dave says:

    And here’s where things go sideways. Start with an incorrect assumption, “obviously you know nothing about the bible”. No John, as I mentioned previously, my younger life was full of the bible, and not much of my time was spent outside of church, a private school (Christian), and the child of a minister.

    I understand there are many different books, and here’s again where it seems you want to cherry pick your information. You claim different authors and different dates for the books. Where do you get that information from? By what authority do you use to make that claim?

    If you study history and we see patterns of cultures during the times when these books were written, and those cultures syncretizing ideas from different religions, you must provide some evidence to show the Jews were different. Otherwise, and my previous point of the bible proving the bible as circular applies, you have authors with the same ideas and same bias ” confirming ” one another. They’re not being objective and ultimately not concerned with questioning.

    Based on what I can only assume is your authority as a pastor, you should have done at least some research on the history of the bible to understand old manuscripts do not match in a lot of cases, we do not have the original copies of the books and we have proof that copies have been altered, whether or not intentionally is up for debate. This is hugely problematic in that it shows a pattern of unreliability.

    The rebirth of Jerusalem says nothing about the existence of a god. Prophecy is not unique to Christianity and you know that. Citing a historic city that was referenced in the Bible again didn’t equal it or its contents being true. Many books written in antiquity that speak of what you would consider “false deities” or myths reference historical places and talk of actual history. You might want to look up euhemerization.

    Appealing to the “just look around and see all of creation”, is an extremely old and tired argument… Seriously, I’m not trying to be demeaning here but I can look at complexity, admire how intricate something is and if nothing else, state ” I don’t know how it came about “. This is just a god of the gaps argument until science most likely figures out abiogenesis and an argument from ignorance fallacy. YOU MUST PROVE CAUSATION. You can’t just allude to, ” well it looks designed to me and I don’t have any other answer on how it came to be…. Therefore GOD!”. And upon further inspection of “design” we see how biological agents could have actually been designed MUCH better than they are. This should NEVER happen if we have a god such as you suggest.

    In response to your comment about my gravitating to unbelieving sources, at this point yes, I do gravitate towards them. HOWEVER, this is after looking to believing sources and trying to make sense of everything. As I think I’ve hinted at above, I’m finding those sources who continue to believe to skew the information rather than able to be objective. I’m not OK with that.

    I ultimately only seek what is true. I would much rather believe there is an afterlife where I get to see those loved ones who have died. But I also understand that confirmation bias and wishful thinking do not make something true.

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      No matter what proof you are provided your unbelief will not allow you see the truth.
      You start with the Bible being circular reasoning which was proved wrong and you brush aside and then go in another direction.
      Your unbelief is powerful.
      There is no other ancient book like the Bible not even the Koran. There is virtually no prophecy in the Koran.
      You reject the living proof of prophecy which is right before your eyes, so there is not much left to say to you.
      Rather than accepting the Bible, you have let unbelief grasp you mind, and therefore you accept their crafted attacks on the authority of the Bible.
      I repeat the Jews are back in the land and Jerusalem is their capital exactly as the prophets wrote would happen up to 2800 years ago.
      This is because of the everlasting covenant God made with Abraham, the friend of God, 4000 years ago.
      What is happening now in the Middle East must have your attention. It is playing out exactly as the Bible describes.
      As I said the antichrist and Armageddon is on the way, and the then the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
      You have NO excuse for unbelief.
      This is not a game but your eternal life is at stake.

      Now I answered several of your questions, and it is your turn to defend your unbelief.
      ISIS rapes women and sells them as sex slaves. They murder children and everyone else who is not a their type of a Muslim. Now since you do not believe in absolutes, within their culture is there anything
      wrong with raping women and making them sex slaves?
      If ISIS wins and raping unbelieving women is the norm, is there anything wrong with it, if it is universally applied throughout the world?
      If you agree that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with raping women feel free to say so.
      I am not ashamed of my faith, and I don’t want to be inhabited in anyway with your unbelief.

  26. MrClean says:

    Dave, let’s go with your `lastly…’ firstly

    EVIDENCE: (scientifically collected; including hundreds of photographs) archaeological and scientific… this book for you, “The Exodus Case” — I’ve bought and gifted many, but you’ll have to buy your own.

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Exodus-Case-Lennart-Moller/dp/8772477083

    with this video…
    The Exodus Revealed: Searching for the Red Sea Crossing
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTnqRpXKcaQ

  27. Denise in MI says:

    Hey, everyone, I don’t know if you get updates as they post, but on the Jun 9 section, S.O. is requesting prayers for her husband, Chris. It’s serious and immediate prayers are needed. Thought I’d post this here, as so many have chimed in today and might be back.

  28. MrClean says:

    Last post to Dave neglected referencing his challenge (sorry for omission, board getting `busy’ . . . good.

    Here Dave’s challenge; things must be broken down, sometimes first: the challenge … is there any evidence (see, touch, measure, test… scientifically) if the Bible is truly the word of God….. by following the evidence left us, including the narration laid out for us in Exodus concerning the physical migration to the land of Canan.

    Here in part, respectfully, Dave’s challenge to examine the evidence:

    “Lastly, archaeology doesn’t support the history of the bible … the bible unearthed, to see the many cases where we should have evidence if the events in the bible actually transpired. The problem is, we do not.”

    Check “The Exodus Case”… truthful in seeking the truth (change of heart), you will find the truth; you will find The Truth… and He will set free; you, reader examining… you judge the case.

    You will be changed in your thinking.

  29. Dan.w says:

    If evolution really was true and man was getting ‘better and better.why all the locks on every ones door?If one truly believed in ‘the goodness of man,why not leave your house doors unlocked at night and the keys in the ignition of your car?If evolution was true,the jails would empty out,cops would be out of a job,judges would seek other work.Most evolutionists I know lock their doors,hold their keys and still pay taxes so the floors of the jail get washed,and cops and judges get paid.Today is the day of salvation…..Christ paid it all,for each of us.Believe Him and be saved.

  30. Dan.w says:

    Mr.Clean.Psalm 19;1-3 are just what our unbelieving friends need.Like a good Dr.,you gave the perfect prescription.God bless you all,Dan.w

  31. Lori says:

    Dave, Hebrews 11:1King James Version (KJV)

    11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

  32. Dan.w says:

    Welcome Pastor Dave…………………Dan.w

  33. MrClean says:

    David… among many statements you’ve made, your `lastly’ challenge firstly.

    “Lastly, archaeology doesn’t support the history of the bible … where we should have evidence if the events in the bible actually transpired. The problem is, we do not.”

    But we do. You must be honest examining the evidence.

    “The Exodus case”, research compiled in book by Swedish scientist Leonart Moelller, sets forth the evidence. He challenges readers to exam evidence against the record, literally (line by line) following the Bible narrative recorded in Genesis through Book of Exodus.

    This is done so… scientifically by a research scientist as to `whether these things be so’.

    The reader is encouraged to make their own verdict. Looking at the maps, satellite images, geological sampling, and archaeological finds presented, the evidence is quite convincing.

    1Co_14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

  34. MrClean says:

    Did not mean to be redundant… looked like post did not take; so, re-written…. sorry.

    It strikes me, seems the Lord always communicates like no other… according to our sensitivities, even dark bias. The truth is powerful… leading to the Truth that sets us fee; free from all deceit, darkness and despair.

    He is the Way the Truth and the Life… not a liar, challenging all to seek the truth `whether these things be so’. This is by Spirit of Truth gifted of Him in faith, but not in your disbelief, mocking, scoffing spirit of antichrist, but holy… transformed and in process, changing the `inner man’; the heart by Spirit of Christ, Life and that more abundantly, everlasting… don’t miss it: the Way.

    Isa_1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

    ~ Mr. Clean

  35. Dave says:

    No John, yet again you’re wrong. I started as I mentioned above (are you actually reading what I wrote?), with the bible being inerrant and the word of god. Really frustrating trying to have a conversation when someone keeps trying to change your argument….

    Let me repeat this so that maybe this time you can take note. The point when I came to the perspective of the bible being circular, was when I questioned. When I went looking for evidence, I found exactly opposite of what I thought I was going to find (thinking I would find additional proof of god). Taking an objective perspective is the only honest way to tell if something is true. One doesn’t start with the answer and then find evidence to back up the position. One looks to see where the evidence leads. That’s it.

    John you claim no other books have the same amount of prophecy that the Bible does. Do you believe those from other religions will agree with you? And you still never answered my questions on where you come up with the authors or dates of the bible… Dodge questions much???

    So when it comes to science, let’s look at consensus. Now DO NOT take my word for this. What is the consensus on evolution? What amount of the scientific community in the related field supports evolution? I’m not going to state numbers here, I want anyone that bothers to read this to go look it up themselves. Not only is there overwhelming support, but specifically speciation can be demonstrated in a lab. We can watch it happen.

    Funny but your claim to answering my questions seems quite hollow. I’ll go ahead and humor you though, however this argument and mortality has been addressed time and again. First, I know that I have empathy. Have you heard of mirror neurons? We have evolved do that we’re able to empathize with other humans. And do to this fact, I no that because I can suffer, I’d rather not cause suffering for another. You’re going to be digging yourself into a really deep grave on this one if we go much further on this John. Amalkites… Kill all of them including the woman and children… Palms, dash babies against the rocks. The flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc. Kill every living thing without any chance at repentance. And let’s be honest John, even if you want to make the argument of “well god gave them so many chances”, never mind the animals ( which we know suffer and feel pain) are not on a position to have any independent agency in and of themselves… Go ahead, take the William Lane Craig approach, and tell me it was really gods people that had to suffer because they HAD to enact gods wrath. That doesn’t even make sense. You and I can use reason to come up with better morals than is commanded in the bible. Hell is the worst concept for your argument if you believe in that. You do believe in inerrancy right John? You know that passage where it says god created evil? Hell is the most evil concept of all. I must believe in something that not only hides itself (again I honestly searched here despite whatever argument your going to tell me ) and found nothing. But if I don’t, I get eternal punishment for not believing. This is a place your god created. In system your god created. You must give up any free will at that point John. Coercion due to threat of punishment, is not a choice. You must have seen that news article recently of Isis murdering a woman because she didn’t perform sex acts on them. How disgusting of that right? But yet, if that was commanded in the name of Yahweh, they would be right to do so and you would necessarily have to support it. Numbers 31:18, but all the girls who have not known a man intimately, spare for yourself. How would they know the girl was a virgin John?

    So yes, there is a problem with raping women and taking them as sex slaves. Because I know take causes suffering. It is a disgusting act.

    My point isn’t that you need to be inhabited by my unbelief. My point is you need to be honest. And claiming persecution or being mocked for holding beliefs that go on exact opposition of evidence is extremely problematic. Be like Francis Collins at the least. Own the science and submit that faith is something you still value. But don’t pretend that evidence is on your side.

    To address Denise’ point in regards to the energy I put into arguments such as this. While I appreciate your approach as one of compassion and caring, I need you to understand that I feel like I was lied to repeatedly throughout my life. I don’t necessarily fault those (such as parents) who conveyed belief on me as I believe they are genuine as I believe you are being. They honestly were doing what they thought was right. But information was extremely skewed. That frustrates me to no end.

    Mrclean, you realize not only does that book hold a fringe view, but the author is not an archaeologist? I might as well bring up Richard Carrier’s book and start arguing Jesus did not exist… While in Carrier’s case I think his argument needs to be subject to a lot more peer review, consensus matters. Otherwise confirmation bias will cloud perspective and suddenly we find ourselves going against the evidence because we don’t like it.

    Dan, evolution is a process that doesn’t necessarily result in humanity “getting better”… Please look up the actual definition and specifics behind evolution. But I also think Steven pinker shows data in regards to how our society is actually less violent than previous generations. Just because we have better technology that allows for more death and more destruction, people are generally more civilized than the warring tribes of antiquity and especially of those presented in the bible.

    One last question for John, maybe you can answer this as well. Why are there so many contradictions in the Bible? And before we get into apologetics where you change meanings, how about start with the gospels. Why don’t Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all match up? Do you hold to the belief that Matthew 27:53 is factual and no one else but Matthews gospel reported on this?

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Dave, this is a secret of how to be heard on blogs and FaceBook.
      Keep your posts short and to the point. I don’t have lots of time to spend with you.

      I have proven to you that the Bible is not circular reasoning and to remain in unbelief you refuse to accept that there are multiple authors over 1500 years.
      They were priests, kings, generals, statesmen, herders, fishermen, scholars.
      Most books were written in Israel but some in Babylon and Turkey.
      You appear very foolish continuing to state that using the Bible to prove its authority is circular reasoning.
      The Old Testament was really canonized about 200 BC with Greek translation the Septuagint, while the New Testament in 300 AD.
      There has been nothing added since, so it is very safe to use the Bible to defend the Bible as it is not circular reasoning.
      When I quote Moses he is 1300 BC and compare with John who wrote in 100 AD. Please stop the circular reasoning argument.
      Once again, you have the proof of the authority of the Bible as you can get on an airplane and fly to the reborn nation of Israel with Jerusalem as its capital.
      You can hear Hebrew being spoken and touch anyplace in the city that you want. This is really all the proof that you need.
      It is visible tangible proof which you requested.

      I asked you a direct question and do not deflect it by going to the Bible.
      I want a direct answerer from you about ISIS and raping women and making sex slaves with no defection.
      You need to stand on your own and answer this as a real atheist should.
      Please defend your unbelief.
      We might be able to move on after you defend the moral issues atheism.

      Please keep it terse.

  36. Norman, Shropshire, UK says:

    ‘Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing’. The Lord knows every heart, every hurt, every need. One word, one look from him, is all it takes: ‘My Lord and my God!’

  37. Gary says:

    Dave, coming from someone who was headed the same way you have gone….same background, same direction, you have rejected the basic tenet of Christianity, FAITH, simple, childlike faith in God and His son who died for us. You can’t use intellectualism to “explain” God. It doesn’t work. It takes faith. Without it, you can and will explain everything else away as circular arguments, etc…. I had to accept that there are things that I will never be able to understand or explain away intellectually I had to go by faith The “smarter” you are, the harder faith is to accept . Either you lost your faith, or you never had it. There is no sense in trying to debate the existence of God with you unless and until you reject your intellectualism, which is currently your ‘god’
    But as far as being an atheist, one day, and probably very soon as we are in the season, the rapture will occur, and every knee, including yours, will bow to God. All the ‘stories’ your parents and teachers told you growing up will be proven true, I just hope you find your faith in God and bow your knees voluntarily before God forces you to do it. The bottom line for me was this….what if I was wrong? what if there is a God? what was the result going to be if all the “stories” were true? you, “know” the Bible. You know what the result is going to be if you are wrong….Are you willing to risk all of eternity in the lake of fire? That’s the result if you are “wrong.” You can’t explain God. you can’t rationalize him, you can’t intellectualize Him. You just have to have faith and accept Him.

  38. Denise in MI says:

    Dave, I still see some arrogance and sarcasm in your comments. You want to be right, no matter the cost. It’s not worth it, Dave. Please open your heart to the Lord. Ask Him to show you the way. You see, sometimes God will allow a stubborn heart to be closed. Not that He gives up on us, but, being God, He doesn’t have to prove Himself to us. I pray you are not too far gone.

    I understand your upbringing more than you think. I was raised Catholic and bought into it for many years, even raising my kids that way. Taught by the nuns, my parents experienced fear and intimidation. They obeyed without questioning.

    My 1st cousin is a priest who treated my youngest brother rudely, telling him if he didn’t cut his long hair (remember mullets?), he could no longer be an altar boy. My brother said that Jesus had long hair, but, stung by rejection, he ended up leaving the church and hasn’t been back in almost 25 yrs.He’s had years of problems with drugs and alcohol.He is still an angry man, and I pray for God to heal his broken heart every day.

    I asked my mom why we didn’t just go to another church in support of my brother. As the priest was our cousin, my mom said my dad would never go against the family. (But his son is ok?) That’s how ingrained the RCC is in families. You don’t dare question. It’s similar to a cult. The sad truth is, no one but me ever reads the bible. They take the word of the priests, bishops, & pope, following all the rules, no matter what. I feel disloyal sharing this b/c I love and respect them very much, but it’s like brainwashing. It’s their way or the highway–or hell. You have to keep earning your salvation. It breaks my heart, and I am still trying to understand. I’m working really hard on my mom (my dad died), letting her know that Jesus is our only mediator–not Mary or the saints or a priest. I say that Jesus paid the price for our sins on the Cross; it is finished. We can never be good enough to earn Heaven, but with Christ we don’t have to be. Just accept His free gift.

    So my brother became disillusioned with the RCC, but not God. (He still prays.) Please don’t confuse your very human parents and a very human church system with the Lord Who loves you unconditionally. He can take all the hurt and shame and turn it into something beautiful. Put your argument aside, at least temporarily, and sincerely say, “God if You are real, please show me Your way.” It might not happen overnight, but He will show you Himself. He can’t do it if you are still carrying skepticism in your back pocket, waiting to say “I told you so” if He doesn’t act immediately. Let go for a while, and see what happens.

    I prayed for you and will continue to do so, knowing that God can and will save you, if you only give Him a real chance. Forget the past; start fresh. Please. I’d like to meet you in Heaven, not to say I was right (we’ll forget our petty cares of this world anyway), but to welcome you as a brother in Christ. There is more joy in Heaven for one saved sinner than 99 righteous. Remember the shepherd left the 99 to go search for the lost sheep. That’s you, Dave. He really, really loves you that much.

    John, sorry for another long-winded comment, but I think you understand how serious this is.

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      If he doesn’t mind long comments its OK.
      I don’t have the time to answer long comments with many issues.

  39. Joni says:

    Dave, the sarcasm is not helpful here.
    Please can it.
    John speaks from love.
    We all do.
    I would bet you have at least one degree.
    Its that “school smarts” that makes you unwise.
    You seem to have your mind made up.
    In fact, you do seem to mock, and hold your opinion over Truth.
    We will pray for you here.
    Finding this site was no accident for you.
    Interesting you posted on a mocking site.
    God is good.
    God Bless you,
    Joni

  40. Ryan Thomas says:

    Thanks mark, psalm 35:16 reminds me of math 24:51.

  41. Denise in MI says:

    I agree with Joni, that Dave was led here for a reason. It’s amazing how God calls His children to Him.

    Seeing my brother, who once had a heart to serve, being rejected for appearance’s sake, I really believe Dave was deeply wounded and is afraid to be “fooled again.” Let’s all lift him up in prayer, that God will heal his broken heart. Remember, He didn’t come for the saved but for the lost.

    The true church will never reject a sincere man or woman. I don’t see that in academia. The son of my husband’s boss is a student at my alma mater. They had reps from LGBT speak, and they had to write about it. He got a failing grade b/c, as a Christian,he didn’t agree w/ the agenda. Tolerance only goes one way in academia.

    I had to take a humanities class for my MA, where the prof wanted everyone to find something in nature and commune with it. We had to keep a rock on our person. He said, “Don’t look for this rock; it’ll find you.” We also had to keep a journal. Well, I told him that I prayed instead. I was very nervous in that class. I had to leave a few times to run to the bathroom b/c my stomach was so upset. It was the Holy Spirit, I’m sure, protecting me from this wrong thinking. The man was kind but misguided. I think I dropped that class (been awhile). I wish I’d had the words to witness to him at that time. Same thing happened with a counselor I saw for a time. He was New Age, and I was prompted by the HS to leave.

  42. Ryan Thomas says:

    Hi Dave, Are these arguments the same ones you’ve used with God? He knew what was in your heart you know. So why should He have given you anything? He won’t let you take from Him, why should He. That’s what satan is trying to do.
    Unless a person is born again, they cannot see the kingdom of God, and nor can they understand it.
    If you put down your arguments, then ask Jesus to give you a measure of faith, to get you moving toward life eternal, He may. It has to be honest. You cannot fool The Holy Spirit. At least tell Him you want to believe.
    You spoke of loved ones.A person can’t even know what love really is, until they are born again, even though they may think they do. Any true born again saint knows this.
    Your obviously sharp.I hope you don’t let foolish pride or unbelief drag you into hell. Much worse, that it doesn’t drag others you care about there.
    The love of God come your way.

  43. MrClean says:

    Dave… I am not here to defend the book (“The Exodus Case”), but the Book of books and the words that became flesh.

    See others’ comments who have actually read the book; 61 reviews – 96% giving 4-5 excellent review. True, the author is not an archaeologist per se, but a respected, doctored-degreed research scientist. He follows the `scientific method’ in presenting the evidence in the case… in this case, testing the veracity of the Bible record.

    Not an archaeologist myself, but you don’t have to be to examine the material evidence. That said, my many years employed in a major state’s division of historical resources (including archaeology)… http://dos.myflorida.com/historical/ … this allows me some comfort positively referencing this work.

    But you can peruse others’ reviews assessing its contents “4.7 out of 5 stars”: http://www.amazon.com/The-Exodus-Case-Lennart-Moller/dp/8772477083

    Here just one, I think going with the vast majority that have read and examined the book calling it “Positive evidence the Bible is true”:

    “I have watched videos of Dr. Moller online, as well as the Caldwells, all of whom went on this same journey. This book is detailed beyond any other I’ve ever read, scientific or not. This proves that the supernatural does exist (we just haven’t been able to come up with a scientific reason for these types of events). Incredible photos and charts and terrific documentation. Loaned it to my non-believing nephew over two weeks ago and he still hasn’t returned the book. There will be no doubts, whatsoever, about what really happened, once one has read this book. Everything is extremely well-documented by a top-notch Scientist.”

    To your second point alluding to comparison to another book… “arguing Jesus did not exist”: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    The book is suggested you (but highly recommended to everybody) because in search for scientific, archaeological evidence; this is it… the case presenting the evidence and stating the case for God’s recorded word: you be judge and jury.

    But as with `jury duty’, jurors have to be present, objective and taking a look — having eyes and ears open. And check your heart… for out of it are the issues of life.

  44. Danielle says:

    @ Denise ~ awesome post !! You could have written my story regarding the Catholic Church !! I always knew something was wrong … but since we weren’t allowed to ask questions ( how dare we !) I never repented , because no one knew enough Scripture to even teach us anything of value .. like John 3:16 ?! They had their own version of a bible (“Saint Joseph’s ” ?? ..lol) and we were told NOT to ever read it for ourselves, and NOT to ever go to ANY OTHER CHURCH unless it was “Catholic!” Gee… guess they were afraid we would find out the Truth and praise God, I finally did !! His name is JESUS !! – @Joni .. wonderful post to all the mockers … wow .. I couldn’t have said it better with all the patience and love you have shown toward everyone . Want to encourage all here,to keep speaking the Truth because it’s not “love” to let these people burn in hell! One more thing .. when a former “Catholic” is saved and washed in the Blood of the Lamb …….
    Look out world ! We are ON FIRE FOR JESUS !
    Forever His,
    Danielle

  45. Norman, Shropshire, UK says:

    (1) I don’t think the natural man can grasp the depths of iniquity behind The Fall.
    (2) Being raised a Christian leads to conflict – each must be re-born (Eg Wesley).
    (3) As David’s son, Solomon had a hard act to follow. God graciously blessed him with wisdom and riches. In Ecclesiastes, we see the lengths he went to fathom everything. But in neglecting the law, his heart went seriously astray (Deut 17:17).
    (4) Even so, God’s mercy did not depart from that flawed Davidic lineage – witness the genealogies of Matthew and Luke – how great is our God!
    (4) Wisdom (knowledge of good and evil) was not the answer – If it hadn’t been for God’s mercy, they’d have eaten also of the Tree of Life and be lost eternally,
    (5) Works were of no use either: it had to be a slain Lamb, as pre-figured in Abel’s offering For the Seed of the woman would crush the serpent’s head.
    (6) By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son…..
    (7) We may conclude with Paul: “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. ……; and base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: that no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord”. (1 Cor 1:18-31)
    “Unless ye become as a littler child…” .

  46. Dan.w says:

    Dave.God is not an armtwister.That being said,if He wants you for His very own child,it’s as good as done.You can’t outrun,outsmart or hide from Him.I know,I’ve tried.You will eventually wear down or tire out.Here’s the thing………Is pride so important to you that you would let it keep you out of heaven?Take care,Dan.w

  47. Tom says:

    Dave presents his evidence as fact and then authenticates it by the very conclusion that it supports. This is in itself is the exact same thing in which he accuses McTernan of: circulus in probando; arguing in a circle–which is intellectual dishonesty on his part, because again, it is the very same thing that he accuses McTernan of.
    He also commits intellectual dishonesty by shifting the burden of proof–ignorantiam, argumentum ad–of the existence of God on McTernan in order for him to come to the conclusion of the non-existence of God. The Onus is upon Dave to prove non-existence, his posit has to be justified, not McTernan’s objection. The source of his faulty argument is in the implicit presumption that something is unacceptable unless it is proved otherwise.
    An argument–a belief in God–cannot be dismissed simply because it fails to conform to Dave’s existing opinion. Much as he would like to disregard that which offends his ordered pseudo-scientific Hegelian-Festinger view of things–his conclusions–are faulty that again reveals intellectual dishonesty. By refusing to consider that which is historically accurate he proceeds in ignorance–argumentum ad lapidem–while at the same time self-righteously claiming objectivity…………

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      Wow, did you nail it, thanks.
      In fairness to David, I did say I could prove the existence of God so it is up to me to prove it.
      He tried to disarm me by attacking the authority of the Bible and saying using the Bible to prove the Bible is circularize reasoning.
      Of course using a collection of books and letters written over 1500 years by 39 different people is NOT circular reasoning.
      What is dishonest is if he holds to the circular reasons argument, then it is dishonest, which he appears to hold to.
      I offered tangible proof with Bible prophecy that he can touch, and this is a huge problem to overcome.
      I have found that the unbelief of many of the atheist is far greater than my faith.

  48. Tom says:

    …….Objectivity–some of which is based upon his immature and highly amaturish psycho-analysis of McTernan–of which he implies and assigns abnormal behavior diagnosis. If found true, it would have no bearing what-so-ever whether or not God exists. This is the Straw-Man argument; since you cannot refute McTernan’s objections, you must refute and discredit him. This is the exact same thing that he accuses him of; again he commits intellectual dishonesty.

    Unfortunately Dave’s world view has become all too common on this blog as anti-Christian proponents (not necessarily Aethiests) come to realize that ignorance and arrogance are more reliable as a source of academic bliss and mental stimulation than is intellectual integrity and honesty.

    In His Service,
    Tom

    • JohnMcTernan says:

      If you notice the personal attack had no bearing on me, I ignored it.
      The most important thing is this discussion is Bible prophecy and how it is now tangible.
      Tom, did you see Dave respond to my question about.
      ISIS and raping women and selling them as sex slaves?
      If he did, I must have read over it.
      Thanks

  1. June 12, 2015

    […] “WARNING: Mockers in the Last Days”  […]