1) Muslim Response

March 23, 2010

Ali said...

Before I begin I would like to say thank you to John to allowing me have this debate on his blog and I hope that your viewers or whoever comes across this, has a open mind before reading anything and if in doubt to do their own research around the topic for better understanding. Secondly I would like to say that this debate is not showing how EVERY Muslim thinks because there could be something that I missed and any mistakes made are from me and not due to Islam or the Holy Quran. Furthermore, I can see from some comments that people have already started judging me and my motives and I urge you to have a open mind so that you can better understand the debate and not jump to conclusion before hearing (or seeing) all the points made. The only reason I replied to any posts at all made by John was because he had a distorted view of what Islam is and I do not know why but my own guess is from a lack of understanding of the Holy Quran (tafsir) without proper education in the context of the verses. I just wanted to clear some of your misconceptions and maybe help you understand Islam just a little bit better but anyway thanks for the opportunity.

So you have already laid out the six points as your criteria of the prophet unto like Prophet Moses (pbuh) and I happy to debate within the criteria you have listed but can I ask how did you come up with these characteristics and why MUST these six characteristics be fulfilled?

So we can agree on that the Six characteristics are:
1. The Prophet is descendent of Abraham (pbuh).
2. God spoke directly to Moses.
3. Moses was in the direct presence of God.
4. Moses introduced a blood covenant relationship with God.
5. Moses did miracles.
6. Moses made prophecies

"To be a Biblical prophet, one has to prophesy the future and be 100 percent accurate.
Deuteronomy 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."

To begin with you went straight to characteristic number 6 which is that Moses (pbuh) was a prophet and made prophecy hence the prophet like Moses will do the same. I agree that Jesus (pbuh) made prophecies and I am not here to argue about them but to show that Muhammd (pbuh) also made prophecies shown in the Holy Quran and which have been fulfilled.
First of all, this characteristic is very broad and can apply to many other prophets that came after Moses (pbuh) such as David, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha, Zechariah and John the Baptist (peace be upon them all) so why only limit it to Jesus (pbuh)? Secondly, it does say that when a prophecy is made and it does not come to pass then that is a false prophecy and not from God but you should note the words "…if the thing follow not, nor come to pass" and ONLY then is it "the thing which the LORD hath NOT spoken." Hence with this criteria the prophecies that have NOT come to pass at all are classed as false. It doesn't saying anything about being 100% accurate either only that they come to pass. Furthermore, it goes on to say that the "prophet hath spoken it presumptuously" meaning he spoke it in arrogance without actually knowing the outcome but Prophet Muhammd (pbuh) knew what would happen due to revelation from Allah and so knew exactly what he was saying otherwise if he didn't then whatever he said would have no basis and would not have happened especially since he was "ummi" hence he could not even take a educated guess.

However, if it was the case of making prophecies and that those prophecies had not come about at all then no Muhammd (pbuh)'s prophecies did come to pass one way or the other whereas you can argue that if most of the things mentioned in Book of Revelation (which are also general statements) have not come to pass at all then does that mean these were also false prophecies? More specifically what about Jesus' Second Coming which has not yet happened but we both firmly believe that this will most surely happen, therefore on that basis prophecies made about the Day of Judgment in the Holy Quran cannot be discarded so lightly. Much of what is happening today was predicted years ago in the Holy Quran and same can be said about the Bible so if those prophecies in the Bible are accepted then why not those made in the Holy Quran? The only other theme which is addressed more in the Holy Quran (other then the Day of Judgement: "Qiyamah") is monotheism. Therefore you cannot say that Muhammad (pbuh) made no prophecies; NONE AT ALL.

Even if you do not want to take into account these then lets look at the prophecy you even mentioned yourself on your website; which is the prophecy made in Sura 30 about the defeat of the Romans.

"The Romans have been defeated in a land close by, but they, after their defeat, will be victorious, within nine years. God's is the command in the former case and in the latter, and on that day believers will rejoice, with the help of God. He helps to victory whom He wills. He is the All-Mighty, the All-Compassionate" (al-Rum, 30.1-5)

Considering at the time the Persians had utterly defeated the Romans and had sweeping victories thereafter, no one would ever thought that the Romans would be able to defeat them after this and especially in a short period of time; so what made the Prophet say this then? Before this though the Muslims and Prophet Muhammd (pbuh) supported the Romans and the pagans in Makkah supported the Persians as they were also pagan. But as Persian won, they were taunted and and said they will also be defeated like the Romans at the time. Therefore, this opening verse was a glad tiding and source of hope to the Muslim. At that time it would have been pointless to say this but our Prophet (pbuh) did and so it did happen. And history is witness to this so therefore it didn't need to be shown that it is fulfilled in Quran.
Another prophecy is that Pharaoh's body will be found as a Sign for future generations.
[Quran 10:92] "This day We shall salvage your body so that you may be a sign for those after you; and indeed most people are neglectful of Our signs."
This New York Times article gives more detail.

These are just some examples of the prophecies made in the Holy Quran and im not talking about the Day of Judgement...there are many more. You dont need to prove that Jesus made prophecies and some of them came true because we already believe Jesus is a prophet and hence this doesnt need to be proven. We Muslims have been saying this from the very begining!

By John McTernan: Defend and Proclaim the Faith
Blog: John McTernan's Insights at www.johnmcternan.name